Op IMPACT: CAF in the Iraq & Syria crisis

[rnkelly]

So much for quiet professionals, right?

Burn from the guy with 7000 quiet posts.

 

[medicineman]

:nod:  Well, to be picky, in a "never pass a fault" sort of pickiness, it was in two sentences ...  :-*

True enough...  ;D

MM

 

[Eye In The Sky]

So much for quiet professionals, right?

To be fair, it is not only the ATF and LRP Det that are out of the news, social media, etc by the CAF.  It is pretty much IMPACT in its entirety it seems.  How odd.  It's almost like there was direction to leave OP IMPACT out of the spotlight...

 

[The Bread Guy]

Interesting the phrasing of this headline, eh?
"Are UK special forces preparing for chemical warfare ahead of assault on Mosul, Iraq?"
You need to go all the way to paragraph 10 to see this:

... The issuing of chemical warfare equipment – including masks and suits – appears to have been informed by a warning from the Pentagon in September that US troops in the area had been attacked with mustard gas ...

One of the ways the RUS Info-machine is hinting the Coalition may be using chemical weapons?  #WelcomeBackDezinformatsia

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I don't think so.  It runs in line with some other stories;  ISIS may have used mustard gas, vice a unit in the MESF used it against ISIS.

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/09/26/pentagon-now-expects-isis-to-use-mustard-gas-in-mosul-fight.html

http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/ISIS-Threat/Did-ISIS-use-chemical-weapons-in-rocket-strike-near-US-troops-in-Iraq-468374

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3739434/Gory-pictures-blisters-suffered-Kurdish-fighters-evidence-ISIS-jihadis-deploying-MUSTARD-GAS-Iraq.html

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/09/22/pentagon-confirms-isil-chemical-attack-near-us-troops-iraq/90841824/

ISIS has used chemical in the past;  mustard was suspected, chlorine confirmed.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3443721/ISIS-used-chemical-weapons-make-mustard-gas-chlorine-warns-CIA-director.html

 

[The Bread Guy]

I don't think so.  It runs in line with some other stories;  ISIS may have used mustard gas, vice a unit in the MESF used it against ISIS ...

150% agreed -- I wasn't trying to deny reports of the bad guys using chemical weapons, just pointing out one of the ways that some (maybe  :Tin-Foil-Hat: ?) people can "read" stuff on the internet and see nothing but "it's the WEST that's doing that chemical stuff", or how some headlines would feed that view.

 

[Sub_Guy]

So much for quiet professionals, right?

Sure.

I think our guys are quiet professionals. I see guys and gals go back over for their 3rd and 4th rotation and what recognition do they get?  Nothing.

They see admin folks receiving their before they leave theatre.  Want to guess how many aircrew have received their GCS?  Zero.  None.

I know none of us do it for the bling, but it is demoralizing when you have young guys flying over 100 missions over Iraq and leave theatre for the 3rd time with nothing more than a pat on the back.  Yet the non-fliers get seen off with their recognition. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Sounds like an admin failure with the air det chain. But we're not taking about medals, the quote was related to media recognition, which should rank below a nice pair of socks in the hierarchy of wants.

 

[eliminator]

Sure.

I think our guys are quiet professionals. I see guys and gals go back over for their 3rd and 4th rotation and what recognition do they get?  Nothing.

They see admin folks receiving their before they leave theatre.  Want to guess how many aircrew have received their GCS?  Zero.  None.

I know none of us do it for the bling, but it is demoralizing when you have young guys flying over 100 missions over Iraq and leave theatre for the 3rd time with nothing more than a pat on the back.  Yet the non-fliers get seen off with their recognition.

You forgot to add the detail where the aircrew "rotos" are less than 3 months (some considerably less than that) which isn't even enough time for the GSM-EXP to be ordered and delivered before they leave theatre. Add the fact that to qualify for the GCS-EXP one needs 30 days over the badlands, most aircrew require multiple rotos to reach the required number of days. And it gets even more messy if they are "upgrading" their GSM to a GCS.

The non aircrew forks who are doing 6+ months tours (some folks in the JTF doing 12 months) get their recognition while still in theatre simply due to the fact that they are stuck there long enough for the medals to make it to them before they leave.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Three months. None are considerably less.

Every Aurora aircrew member will get their 30 flights in three months.  I wasn't making shit up when I said some folks have eclipsed the 100 mission mark.

Most will qualify for both the GSM and GCS, as long as they have 6 months between rotations.

 

[eliminator]

Three months. None are considerably less.

Every Aurora aircrew member will get their 30 flights in three months.  I wasn't making crap up when I said some folks have eclipsed the 100 mission mark.

Most will qualify for both the GSM and GCS, as long as they have 6 months between rotations.

How long are the AAR and TacAvn rotos? I'd be surprised if they were as long as 3-months?

As for the double medal qual, true but it only works as long as they are using time from a 180 day period for one medal at a time.

But still, if the crews aren't getting their medals within a few months of getting back home, there's something slowing the process down. (My guess is someone has to verify logbook entries for each mission...?)

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Sounds like an admin failure with the air det chain. But we're not taking about medals, the quote was related to media recognition, which should rank below a nice pair of socks in the hierarchy of wants.

It's not the LRP Det, or even the ATF-I level where the fuck up is.  It wasn't limited to RCAF types, it was the entire ROTO 0.  There is a CANFORGEN out re: Roto 0.  Short version, ROTO 0 got forgotten, now every ROTO in theatre is a higher priority than the folks who are already back home and did their time.

The GCS is another, different level of fuck-up. 

LRP should get the same media recognition as everyone else...

 

[Sub_Guy]

How long are the AAR and TacAvn rotos? I'd be surprised if they were as long as 3-months?

As for the double medal qual, true but it only works as long as they are using time from a 180 day period for one medal at a time.

But still, if the crews aren't getting their medals within a few months of getting back home, there's something slowing the process down. (My guess is someone has to verify logbook entries for each mission...?)

The GSM/GCS qualification works as long as there are 180 days between rotations.  Since most will qualify for the GCS on their first Roto, then on their second they qualify for the GSM (assuming a 180 break).  But even this was a bit of a battle.

The awards process (for us) is beyond fucked up.  I have had to submit my log book twice in the last year.  I annotated my log book as I was directed, but now I have heard that they are having issues verifying that I actually flew over Iraq.  I don't write where I fly in my book.  Anyway I read an email from CAS and it mentioned that it is taking a long time because they have to ensure the integrity of the awards process.  Sounds good enough, but it is unacceptable.  Where the fuck else would I have flown?    This sounds like a good topic of discussion for the upcoming town hall here at 14 Wing.

My cynical gut instinct tells me they are hold off handing out anything until after the deployment ends so they can have a big parade and award them all at once.

I have no idea how long the rotations for the AAR/Tac folks are.

 

[jollyjacktar]

It's not just you guys, ETIS, DH, the whole system is royally fucked.  All awards take too long to deliver to those who have earned them, even the routine things like CD's (that should be almost automatic and on time).  After my first time in the sandbox, it was up to me and the guys I was there with to submit the paperwork through out individual unit OR's after we rotated home.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Oh its not even just that simple.

ROTO 0 went in Oct 2014.  Right?  LRP was boots on the ground Oct 2014, with the first crew rotating out in Jan/Feb 2015 (not because we are whiners...we max out the amount of hours we are allowed to fly [and then some...we have extensions permitted by the appropriate authority in the RCAF);  this is why we do shorter roto's (but we are also back very frequently, where most people won't be there more than once, if at all for some).

So, the first folks to get 30+ missions over Iraq...no GCS yet.  Nodda one for LRP.

THIS picture was taken on 21 Dec 2015.  Notice the GCS being presented (as far as I can tell).  So, why is it they are giving it to some before they leave theatre, and others...not at all.  So...the Liberals were elected Oct 2015...in power Nov 2015.  The new MND can present some GCS to people who are about to leave theatre, while others who are probably back on their 2nd roto from LRP...sorry, fuck you zoomie types.

LRP is and has been putting their bacon on the line, over every shithole you can imagine.  It's not like we're flying orbits around the airfield looking for stray dogs and speeders.  The guys and gals deserve a throwing star every bit as much as the SOF folks in the pic above.

 

[dimsum]

My cynical gut instinct tells me they are hold off handing out anything until after the deployment ends so they can have a big parade and award them all at once.

That sounds so ridiculous that it seems plausible. 

 

[Zoomie]

The system is changing - we have changed policy with DHH and are now able to order all tour medals in theatre and have delivered to home units. 

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The system is changing - we have changed policy with DHH and are now able to order all tour medals in theatre and have delivered to home units.

That's good news.  But, the way it was explained to me, folks like me who were ROTO 0 are a lower priority than those currently in theatre when it comes to "applications" in MAPS.

Certainly not the end of the world, but this is something we can do better.  The clusterfuck I went thru seems fairly common for almost everyone I was over with; uncertainty over what medal, medals, who is doing it, when it should be done, etc.  It took months to get it sorted out and I shook my head as it seemed I was the one who understood things more than the Medals Clerk - Dolphin_Hunter provided me with a very clear, concise email from a Medals Clerks at DH & R that laid it all out.  I forwarded that on and...it still went off the rails.

Flush Brush Flush!!  ;D

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

That's good news.  But, the way it was explained to me, folks like me who were ROTO 0 are a lower priority than those currently in theatre when it comes to "applications" in MAPS.

Certainly not the end of the world, but this is something we can do better.  The clusterfuck I went thru seems fairly common for almost everyone I was over with; uncertainty over what medal, medals, who is doing it, when it should be done, etc.  It took months to get it sorted out and I shook my head as it seemed I was the one who understood things more than the Medals Clerk - Dolphin_Hunter provided me with a very clear, concise email from a Medals Clerks at DH & R that laid it all out.  I forwarded that on and...it still went off the rails.

Flush Brush Flush!!  ;D

Your unit leadership should be looking after this, or at least rocking the boat for the ladies and gents to receive their just due!  Sounds like someone needs to have their head pulled out of their 5th point of contact.

 

[Lumber]

Completely aside, I just had a mid-shower kind of thought:

Why do we start with Roto 0 and not Roto 1? Shouldn't the first roto be roto 1?