Ontario Politics in 2018

[Jarnhamar]

You're the only one dragging the failure to sue out. Maybe he decided it was not in his financial interests to pay a lawyer for an uncertain outcome. I imagine the paper ran the story past their lawyers to make sure it didn't open them up to anything. You can say a lot of damaging things about someone if you hide behind anonymous sources.

I'm no Ford fan, and it appears many on here aren't, but referencing to an article from years ago that has no actual substance is starting to get a touch old.

Concur. I don't understand the "but he didn't sue" thing.  Is that somehow an admission of guilt? Lack of integrity because he said he would and didn't? Didn't want to line the pockets of lawyers tens of thousands of dollars just to have someone say sorry?

 

[mariomike]

You can say a lot of damaging things about someone if you hide behind anonymous sources.

Doug's complaint was given a Hearing by the Ontario Press Council.

The hearing was run by retired Ontario judge George Thomson, the chief executive officer of the Investment Funds Institute of Canada Joanne De Laurentiis and Drew Gragg, deputy editor of the Ottawa Citizen.

QUOTE

Press Council dismisses complaints against The Globe's Doug Ford investigation; he dismisses the findings
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/press-council-rules-globes-use-of-anonymous-sources-in-doug-ford-story-deemed-justifiable/article14882985/
The Globe and Mail's use of anonymous sources in a story about Toronto councillor Doug Ford's alleged ties to the drug trade was justifiable, the Ontario Press Council ruled in a decision that dismissed concerns about the reporting.

END QUOTE

I was replying to this,

Was Doug Ford found guilty of selling drugs?

There was no conviction because it was not a criminal case. It was a newspaper story.

Part of the newspaper story was the complaint to and Hearing with the Ontario Press Council.

That, and his threat to sue the newspaper, make it part of the news story.

Again, there was no conviction, because it was not a criminal case.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

That would be a boon for the Tories. The reason why Harper's minority lasted so long was Canadians don't like elections, and to call one 3 months later would sour the last liberal supporters into staying home. Not to mention any election loss for the liberals is going to have them wanting to clean house after 15 years of nepotism and political favours.

The reason Harper's minority lasted so long is that it took that long to convince a plurality of the ridings across Canada (read- Ontario) to vote CPC.

2011- 166 seats (73 Ontario)
2008- 143 seats (51 Ontario)
2006- 124 seats (40 ontario)

 

[PuckChaser]

The reason Harper's minority lasted so long is that it took that long to convince a plurality of the ridings across Canada (read- Ontario) to vote CPC.

2011- 166 seats (73 Ontario)
2008- 143 seats (51 Ontario)
2006- 124 seats (40 ontario)

Correlation does not equal causation.

Harper did not call an election because he thought he'd win more seats in Ontario, he does not strike anyone as a gambler in that fashion. He dissolved Parliament after Dion took over the Liberals and started voting against government motions in lockstep with the NDP and Bloc, making a non-confidence vote highly likely. He ripped the band-aid off and won a majority because no one wanted to see an election again so soon (1 million less people voted in 2008 vice 2006) coupled with an absolutely terrible campaign by Dion (Liberals lost 800,000 voters) and the Liberal Party.

 

[Bird_Gunner45]

Correlation does not equal causation.

Harper did not call an election because he thought he'd win more seats in Ontario, he does not strike anyone as a gambler in that fashion. He dissolved Parliament after Dion took over the Liberals and started voting against government motions in lockstep with the NDP and Bloc, making a non-confidence vote highly likely. He ripped the band-aid off and won a majority because no one wanted to see an election again so soon (1 million less people voted in 2008 vice 2006) coupled with an absolutely terrible campaign by Dion (Liberals lost 800,000 voters) and the Liberal Party.

Or because Michael Ignatieff lost the support of the suburbs around Toronto, which went to the Conservatives. Saying it was because of elections is a factor, but I would say it wasn't THE factor. The tide, theoretically, in Ontario could have turned to the Liberals (which it tellingly did again in 2015) had Ignatieff run a better campaign or had the "orange crush" not have effected the campaign, etc, etc, etc. That the CPC vote only went up 3% (36.27% to 39.62%) but resulted in a 23 seat variation, the same number of seats they won in the GTA/Hamilton/Niagara. Which is, in another thread, what the CPC needs to do to win any future elections- find a way to take 23 of 50 GTA seats. Seeing the CPC do as well in the GTA in the future is hard, especially in a situation where a CPC can beat the LPC leader in Etobicoke.

It segues into the actual Ontario discussion and what the OPC need to do- focus on gaining enough seats in the GTA and Ottawa to avoid a minority win, or if Doug does something crazy enough, a minority loss. They need to learn from the Manitoba PCs- the rural areas will largely vote for you, so pandering to issues that wont play well in the major urban centres (in their case, Winnipeg) wont accomplish anything other than guarantee constant defeat.

 

[Remius]

Concur. I don't understand the "but he didn't sue" thing.  Is that somehow an admission of guilt? Lack of integrity because he said he would and didn't? Didn't want to line the pockets of lawyers tens of thousands of dollars just to have someone say sorry?

To be honest the whole drug thing is over.  We’re past that.  It’s already out there and people can do what they want with that info. 

As to the not suing thing.  It isn’t technically an admission of guilt.  But it is well known that if you are slandered unfairly and with no proof you can sue for damages.  The problem is that you have to air a lot of dirty laundry in court.  It’s the reason politicians have parliamentary privilege.  To avoid getting sued so long as what they say is said under legislative context like in the House of Commons.  They won’t repeat it outside the house in public because they will get sued for slander if they can’t back up what they say. 

So if the fords were truly slandered, they could have sued.  But didn’t despite threatning to.  If it was slander it would have been a slam dunk, get a lot of money or get a retraction.  But that didn’t happen so creates an atmosphere where one might think he had something to hide or didn’t want the story tested in a court of law.

So not guilty.  But it leaves people to wonder.  Like when people choose to remain silent when arrested or refuse to let a cop into their home without a warrant.  They may not be guilty of anything but they sure look like they have something to hide despite them exercising their rights. 

“That’s slander and I’m suing!”.  Are you ready to test that in court?  “Never mind.”

Either way, I don’t think the drug dealing allegations are all that relevant now. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

What is, totally, completely and unreservedly irrelevant is that he said he'd sue and didn't. I wish I had a dollar for every person that's threatened to sue and didn't. Then I could pay a lawyer to explain it ;D

 

[pbi]

It segues into the actual Ontario discussion and what the OPC need to do- focus on gaining enough seats in the GTA and Ottawa to avoid a minority win, or if Doug does something crazy enough, a minority loss. They need to learn from the Manitoba PCs- the rural areas will largely vote for you, so pandering to issues that wont play well in the major urban centres (in their case, Winnipeg) wont accomplish anything other than guarantee constant defeat.

I agree that the Tories in Ontario will do well in rural ridings and in smaller centres, but I think they could make surprising gains in urban ridings too. As Ford Nation demonstrated, cities are not monolithic blocs of centrist voters, or "lefties". There are all sorts of fracture lines on economic, social and ethnic lines inside any big city.

Ford's  folksy, "let's git them elites" approach will play equally well in Kapuskasing, Timmins, St Thomas, Pembroke, Mississauga and Etobicoke. Don't take anything for granted. Just watch him go.

You don't have to like someone to respect their ability to win.

 

[Journeyman]

You don't have to like someone to respect their ability to win.

Hey, that could be a catchy..... bumper sticker.  :stirpot:

  ;D

 

[mariomike]

So if the fords were truly slandered, they could have sued.  But didn’t despite threatning to. 

QUOTE

Here's a list of people the Fords have threatened to sue, and then not sued
https://nowtoronto.com/news/heres-a-list-of-people-the-fords-have-threatened-to-sue-and-then-not-sued/
Rob and Doug Ford's long history of not taking legal action against people

END QUOTE

As Ford Nation demonstrated, cities are not monolithic blocs of centrist voters, or "lefties". There are all sorts of fracture lines on economic, social and ethnic lines inside any big city.

Anyone who has witnessed a Ford Fest can see that. They certainly attract some local "characters".

Doug had this to say regarding the highlighted part of your post,

QUOTE

Doug on Toronto radio: “I understand — just had a call saying the black community will not be supporting Rob Ford. That is the furthest from the truth. He’s going to have more votes in the black community than President Obama. You know that, everyone else knows that.”
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/07/21/rob_ford_more_popular_with_black_voters_than_obama_doug_ford_claims.html

Doug on CNN: “Everyone keeps saying Rob’s a conservative. He’s a HUGE, MASSIVE social liberal. He LOVES Obama. The headlines of the papers when he won? ‘The White Obama.’
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/rob_ford_hailed_as_the_white_obama_doug_ford_tells_cnn.html

END QUOTE

 

[Altair]

QUOTE

Here's a list of people the Fords have threatened to sue, and then not sued
https://nowtoronto.com/news/heres-a-list-of-people-the-fords-have-threatened-to-sue-and-then-not-sued/
Rob and Doug Ford's long history of not taking legal action against people

END QUOTE


Anyone who has witnessed a Ford Fest can see that.

Doug had this to say regarding the highlighted part of your post,

QUOTE

Doug on Toronto radio: “I understand — just had a call saying the black community will not be supporting Rob Ford. That is the furthest from the truth. He’s going to have more votes in the black community than President Obama. You know that, everyone else knows that.”
https://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/toronto2014election/2014/07/21/rob_ford_more_popular_with_black_voters_than_obama_doug_ford_claims.html

Doug on CNN: “Everyone keeps saying Rob’s a conservative. He’s a HUGE, MASSIVE social liberal. He LOVES Obama. The headlines of the papers when he won? ‘The White Obama.’
Everyone keeps saying Rob’s a conservative. He’s a HUGE, MASSIVE social liberal. He LOVES Obama. The headlines of the papers when he won? ‘The White Obama.’
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/11/18/rob_ford_hailed_as_the_white_obama_doug_ford_tells_cnn.html

END QUOTE

Sounds like someone down south of Canada, but north of Mexico.

 

[PuckChaser]

Sounds like someone down south of Canada, but north of Mexico.

Just because you keep saying something, doesn't make it true. It's almost like you write for Maclean's, who are in full court press to support the Wynne Liberals.

 

[mariomike]

Just because you keep saying something, doesn't make it true.

Right. But, whether we choose to agree, or disagree, he's not the only one,
https://www.google.ca/search?dcr=0&source=hp&ei=uC6pWsD5HYr4jwSutJLIBQ&q=%22doug+ford%22+trump&oq=%22doug+ford%22+trump&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1j0i22i30k1.1805.9329.0.9919.18.17.0.0.0.0.175.2336.0j17.17.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.17.2327.0..0j0i131k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1j0i3k1.0.6bFBa3nc0Bo

 

[PuckChaser]

Right. But, whether we choose to agree, or disagree, he's not the only one,
https://www.google.ca/search?dcr=0&source=hp&ei=uC6pWsD5HYr4jwSutJLIBQ&q=%22doug+ford%22+trump&oq=%22doug+ford%22+trump&gs_l=psy-ab.3..35i39k1j0i22i30k1.1805.9329.0.9919.18.17.0.0.0.0.175.2336.0j17.17.0....0...1c.1.64.psy-ab..1.17.2327.0..0j0i131k1j0i20i263k1j0i10k1j0i3k1.0.6bFBa3nc0Bo

I mean, if you can Google it, it must be true, right? :facepalm:

 

[mariomike]

Just because you keep saying something, doesn't make it true.

Right. But, whether we choose to agree, or disagree, he's not the only one,

I mean, if you can Google it, it must be true, right? :facepalm:

I actually agreed  with you, PuckChaser. ( double face palm ) 

 

[Altair]

Just because you keep saying something, doesn't make it true. It's almost like you write for Maclean's, who are in full court press to support the Wynne Liberals.

Oh? Has Trump not said he's going to sue this newspaper, that newspaper, that group of women, or that journalist, only to not do squat in the end?
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-22-times-trump-has-threatened-to-sue-someone-during-this-campaign/

On June 30, 2015*, Trump threatened to sue Univision over the Miss USA pageant. He sued.
On July 2, 2015, Trump threatened to sue the National Hispanic Media Coalition after it called one his speeches a “bigoted, racist, anti-Latino rant.”
On Sept. 21, 2015, Trump threatened to sue the Club for Growth, a D.C.-based nonprofit, over negative ads.
On Sept. 22, 2015, Trump threatened to sue StopTrump.us over selling anti-Trump shirts.
On Oct. 14, 2015, Trump threatened to sue Culinary Workers Union and Bartenders Union for saying Trump spent the night at the unionized Treasure Island casino-resort instead of his own hotel. He sued.
On Nov. 19, 2015, Trump threatened to sue John Kasich over negative ads.
On Nov. 20, 2015*, Trump threatened to sue New Day For America (a super PAC) over negative ads.
On Dec. 7, 2015*, Trump threatened to sue Mike Fernandez, a Jeb Bush donor, over negative ads.
On Jan. 18, 2016*, Trump threatened to sue The Washington Post for writing an article about how one of his casinos filed for bankruptcy.
On Feb. 3, 2016, Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz over voter fraud in the Iowa caucuses.
On Feb. 12, 2016, Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz for “not being a natural born citizen.”
On Feb. 17, 2016*, Trump threatened to sue Ted Cruz for attack ads.
On March 27, 2016, Trump threatened to sue the Republican Party over a dispute about Louisiana delegates.
On April 12, 2016, Trump threatened to sue the Associated Press for publishing an article about the handling of a Trump-branded condo development in Panama.
On April 27, 2016, Trump threatened to sue David Cay Johnston if he didn’t like what Johnston reported.
On May 18, 2016, Trump threatened to sue the Washington Post for libel.
On July 18, 2016, Trump threatened to sue Tony Schwartz, co-author of “The Art of the Deal,” for negative statements Schwartz made to The New Yorker.
On Oct. 4, 2016*, Trump threatened to sue The New York Times for publishing an article on Trump’s tax returns.
On Oct. 12, 2016, Trump threatened to sue The New York Times for publishing an article about two women who accused Trump of sexual assault.
On Oct. 22, 2016, Trump threatened to sue nearly a dozen women for accusing him of sexual assault.

And I'm not pro Wynne liberals, I'm anti Doug Ford.

If Elliot or Mulroney had won I would be counting down the days till Wynne was out of office, instead I'm praying Doug Ford finds a way to screw this up like all the other recent PC leaders.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Maybe we should stop talking about trump in Canadian politics unless it's directly related to policy and affecting Canada.

 

[Altair]

Maybe we should stop talking about trump in Canadian politics unless it's directly related to policy and affecting Canada.

Doug is going to draw Trump comparisons.

 

[mariomike]

Maybe we should stop talking about trump in Canadian politics unless it's directly related to policy and affecting Canada.

Doug is going to draw Trump comparisons.

Hopefully, Doug will get the message. 
http://www.azquotes.com/author/24760-Doug_Ford_Jr

 

[Jarnhamar]

Doug is going to draw Trump comparisons.

Yup. You're certainly helping with it.

Sounds like someone down south of Canada, but north of Mexico.