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Ontario Election/Campaign June 2022

mariomike

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My wife is a RN. The thousands let go because of the vac mandate was a huge problem. But more so was hidden in the stats because many left or retired and not counted in the released because of mandate....shhh it's secret.

So is my ex. If "the vac mandate was a huge problem", so was / is taking care of Covid patients.

But, we've discussed "the vac mandate" in the various Covid threads.


 

Spencer100

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I needed an MRI in Winnipeg and it was a 6 month wait. I needed the exact same MRI in small-town in the Southern US and asked how long the wait was…. “It normally takes about a week for the insurance approval to come through.” Once the money was there it was a few days for the actual appointment.
Better yet I had an MRI in March in Florida. They said a week or two wait. I said I'm from Canada...oh cash then...now no wait. Lol 300.00 US

Money well spent. My doctor here said months and months.

The part that burns my ass is we could have MRI services here too. A doctor had a machine in Windsor because he had some in Detroit and would open here and just do cash jobs but it's against the law. Just think if people with knees and other things like could go pay cash it would free up time at the hospital run one. But the Canada Health act is more religion at this point. No paying allowed. Dirty money.

All my life Canadians have defined themselves as we have free healthcare. And are so smug in the thinking they're better than Americans because that. It down grades the whole country in my mind. The country is not a social program......well?
 

Good2Golf

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Post-retirement HCSA cover private MRI.

.

Which is all good for employees with a benefits plan (that may or may not include a HCSA.

The point was that for people that don’t have a plan, if they want/can afford a service, even if covered by their respective provincial health care systems, but don’t want to wait for the extensive timelines for treatment, the two-tier system is alive and well in Canada (and has been for some time).
 

Brad Sallows

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Good news is that most of the Canadian population lives within driving distance of US cities.
 

Fishbone Jones

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For me the procedure would almost be longer than the trip there and back. I have over 60 MRI clinics, within a 15-20 mile radius. Obviously a booming business that just gets bigger. The demand is there.
 

The Bread Guy

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I always go with low turn as people are happy with the situation and are not voting. But your milage will very.
There could also have been some, "I'm tired post-COVID and don't care enough to get out there" (which I guess is a variation of your read, too).

Given the polling stats from early on, there could also have been some, "it's already decided, so my vote don't matter" too.

Hard to read how much of which.
 

The Bread Guy

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Good news is that most of the Canadian population lives within driving distance of US cities.
Other side of that coin, though, is that if 50% of the Canadian population is in "the red triangle" ....
Screenshot 2022-06-04 063111.jpg
... how do you deal with the 50% of people who don't even live within reasonable driving distance from a provincial capital, much less a U.S. city? Where I live in northern Ontario, it's a 15-17 hour drive to Toronto, and about an 8-ish hour drive to Winnipeg or Minneapolis (closest decent-sized city in the U.S.). If I go to one of these spots for medical treatment, I get some but not all of my travel $ back and I have to front it before I can even apply. Not everyone can do that. Short of moving everyone to Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, Edmonton and Calgary, gotta figure out how to deal with the other 50% when it comes to health care above a certain level of complexity.

Also, don't discount "centre vs. periphery" issues. We have a cancer centre here, and a while back (Team Blue happened to be @ the helm, but as others have said, more than enough issues/stories for both main parties to get the blame over time). Under the old regime, if I went to Ottawa for treatment, I would get a fraction of my travel costs back. When the backlog at the Ottawa cancer centre got too long, patients there would come to the cancer centre here for treatment because the backlog was WAAAAAAAAY less. Guess how much of their travel costs were covered? 100%. Needless to say, we in the periphery were not impressed.

Apologies for the health rant ....
 

Good2Golf

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Bread Guy, not an unreasonable ’rant.’ Not that it would be your intention I’m certain, but I would start by perhaps eliminating/equalizing the Southern/Northern travel reimbursement lopsidedness by, to make a point, eliminating the reimbursement of the Southerners. Then see what they think of that in a “walk a mile in someone else’s shoes” kind of way. The true (in the Unicorn sense) solution would be having appropriate key health services for all within the same distance/time that, let’s say, at least match other ‘all for everybody’ services (SAR, DMV, etc…) 🤔
 

kev994

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There could also have been some, "I'm tired post-COVID and don't care enough to get out there" (which I guess is a variation of your read, too).

Given the polling stats from early on, there could also have been some, "it's already decided, so my vote don't matter" too.

Hard to read how much of which.
I saw maybe 2 election signs in my entire town. During the federal election there were signs everywhere.
 

kev994

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The point was that for people that don’t have a plan, if they want/can afford a service, even if covered by their respective provincial health care systems, but don’t want to wait for the extensive timelines for treatment, the two-tier system is alive and well in Canada (and has been for some time).
Agree. My Father-in-law needed cataract surgery, OHIP would pay for it but with a 2 year wait and he wouldn’t be able to drive during the wait. Alternatively, for a wheelbarrow full of cash he could get ‘corrective eye surgery’, which would also remove the cataracts, and the first eye could be done in a couple weeks.
 

The Bread Guy

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Bread Guy, not an unreasonable ’rant.’ Not that it would be your intention I’m certain, but I would start by perhaps eliminating/equalizing the Southern/Northern travel reimbursement lopsidedness by, to make a point, eliminating the reimbursement of the Southerners. Then see what they think of that in a “walk a mile in someone else’s shoes” kind of way.
I should have been clearer - the southern reimbursement was a one-time thing that (to this day) sticks in my craw. The odds would be VEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERY low that someone from a larger centre would have to come to a smaller centre for treatment they can't find in a Toronto/Montreal/Winnipeg/etc., so they'd be far less likely to have to walk a mile in our shoes.

Although now, people from Thunder Bay are routinely going to far smaller places 4-6 hours drive away for hip & knee surgery done by TBay doctors in smaller centres that have the operating room time to offer up. It is a bit of a goofy system if you look at it @ the micro level.

In theory, Teams Blue & Red (hell, even Team Orange for a short time) have had chances to rebalance the travel grant, but it still ain't there yet. Also,
The true (in the Unicorn sense) solution would be having appropriate key health services for all within the same distance/time that, let’s say, at least match other ‘all for everybody’ services (SAR, DMV, etc…) 🤔
Which even I'll admit is gonna cost a HOCKEY SOCK full of money, to be sure. Even in my unicorn world, I don't expect heart surgery in every city/town of less than 50K population.
 

Good2Golf

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Although now, people from Thunder Bay are routinely going to far smaller places 4-6 hours drive away for hip & knee surgery done by TBay doctors in smaller centres that have the operating room time to offer up. It is a bit of a goofy system if you look at it @ the micro level.
4-6 hrs, yeah, that’s an issue, but conceptually, not a bad idea as it distributes service delivery closer to more people. I’m a rural guy south of Ottawa (well ‘in’ Ottawa, but I can smell cows a lot more than car exhaust and dodge the occasional John Deere on the road), but have gone to see real of the surrounding area’s hospitals for services from my Ottawa-based doctor/specialists. The hospitals are equipped with the latest equipment and full local staffs augmented by city doctors on a regular rotation. Waiting times aren’t long at all and the service is great.
 

The Bread Guy

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4-6 hrs, yeah, that’s an issue, but conceptually, not a bad idea as it distributes service delivery closer to more people. I’m a rural guy south of Ottawa (well ‘in’ Ottawa, but I can smell cows a lot more than car exhaust and dodge the occasional John Deere on the road), but have gone to see real of the surrounding area’s hospitals for services from my Ottawa-based doctor/specialists. The hospitals are equipped with the latest equipment and full local staffs augmented by city doctors on a regular rotation. Waiting times aren’t long at all and the service is great.
Oh, I don't begrudge the smaller towns having more surgical space to allow surgeons to come to them. Hell, they even let us outsiders use some of their slots if they're not full up. It's the overall system that needs a rejig, esp. dealing with relatively remote areas and higher-end treatment.

While having a heart surgery or cancer centre in every burg is nice in theory (assuming you can find enough surgeons, docs, nurses, support staff, etc. willing to move to smaller places & do fewer procedures than they would in bigger spots), people will eventually end up wanting to go to places that do more of them.
 

The Bread Guy

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I saw maybe 2 election signs in my entire town. During the federal election there were signs everywhere.
I saw maybe (WAG) 10% fewer signs overall, but not as much of a difference as you saw fed vs. prov. Here, we saw a loooooooooooooooong-time incumbent (27 years) Liberal step down for health reasons have the seat taken by Team Orange at one end of town, and a Team Orange incumbent (one term) get turfed by Team Blue on the other.
 

lenaitch

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Oh, I don't begrudge the smaller towns having more surgical space to allow surgeons to come to them. Hell, they even let us outsiders use some of their slots if they're not full up. It's the overall system that needs a rejig, esp. dealing with relatively remote areas and higher-end treatment.

While having a heart surgery or cancer centre in every burg is nice in theory (assuming you can find enough surgeons, docs, nurses, support staff, etc. willing to move to smaller places & do fewer procedures than they would in bigger spots), people will eventually end up wanting to go to places that do more of them.
What you describe in N/W and N/E Ontario is interesting and different from when I lived up there. Local hospitals had general surgical suites - and the staff to support them - but procedures like orthopedics are rather specialized (and, in my mind, akin to automotive bodywork if you've ever seen it performed), so the fact that they can do that in the smaller hospitals, and are willing to travel to offer the service, is a good thing.

Access to medical care seems to be a feature of our system; although I have a friend who moved to NS from Ontario and it is worse there. I recently changed doctors - no mean feat in itself - and, because of my age (that, and because I hadn't seen the last jerk for about 3 years), my new doctor order a bunch of tests and imaging. The longest I had to wait was a couple of weeks, and that was on the backside of Covid. My S-in-L, on the other hand, just got her knee replaced after a 2 plus year Covid wait.
 
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