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Online news comment boards. It seems ignorance is bliss.

midget-boyd91

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I, as I'm sure others who visit the vast interweb, have often found myself raging on the inside after the times I read the comment boards of online news sites.
Yes, I do understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion..... but some 'opinions' are just outright horse sh!t. I often find them offensive, as one posted by one who calls him/herself 'Captain Canada' did earlier, and I often find myself banging my head against the computer screen out of frustration built up by the sheer ignorance shown by many many many of these posters.
So, here's a place to post and discuss quotes from 'doozies' or just ones that make you boil on the inside, that you may have read.


Here's one from a CTV.ca story on Minister MacKay confirming the additional Canadian personnel about to be deployed.
"End the Mission says:"

"More troops Mackay says?

Just yesterday Canadian troops killed 2 innocent children.

Not long ago, coalition forces killed an entire wedding party.

War supporters may want to swipe this aside as an "isolated incident", but according to Human Rights Watch, 300 Afghan civilians were killed by coalition forces last year. Insurgents killed 374 Afghan civilians in the last year. Those numbers are far too close.

More troops will do nothing except create more war. More war in this mode we're following will only bring more civilian death and create more resentment and anger towards us.

If you're a wholehearted supporter of this mission who is ready to brush this incident off as collateral damage, consider the following excerpt from today's CTV news article about the children that were killed, the repercussions of such an incident:

... snipped

I wonder if "End the Mission" realizes that the 300 Afghan civilians killed by NATO last year were accidental, and that the 374 (how HRW was able to pinpoint those numbers, I don't know, and I very much doubt the accuracy of those numbers) that were killed by the Taliban were all intentional. Regardless of whether or not the NATO soldiers/pilots pulled the trigger or dropped the bomb on purpose, civilians were not the target.
When the Taliban detonate a suicide bomb or an IED in a crowded market killing dozens of civilians.... this "End the Mission" person needs to give their head a shake of reality.

So, discuss, or post your favorite hair pulling quote.

Midget
 

Love793

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I always wonder if the same people screaming "pull them out" and all the rhetoric that goes with it, are the same ones who will scream "why aren"t we there?" when people start getting murdered by the gross again.
 

a_majoor

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Love793 said:
I always wonder if the same people screaming "pull them out" and all the rhetoric that goes with it, are the same ones who will scream "why aren"t we there?" when people start getting murdered by the gross again.

They are: they want us to leave Afghanistan so we can intervene in Darfur.......Small issues like the fact we would have to invade the Sudan and the Sudanese government operates with the backing of China and Russia are quickly glossed over or ignored.  ::)
 

JAWS228

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Posted of course, by the lovely folks at the G&M comment boards regarding the shooting incident in Afghanistan of the 2 children and their father...this guy is just rtfo.......... :brickwall:


*Though I have heard of suicide bombers, I have never heard of suicide bomber families.

This killing was yet another proud notch on the gun of one our own terrorist yahoos, let loose upon the people of Afghanistan from the wilds of some urban slum or country den of incest and depravity.

The CF has always traditionally been a convenient warehouse for the socially undesirable, unhealthy, and unemployable. Why the surprise when we open the doors and let them roam loose with a licence to kill amongst innocent defenseless civilians. Just wait till they all come home to hero's welcome. You reap what you sew, people. *

Some people are so ignorant its amazing.......I wonder what this guy thinks would happen to him if he drove straight at a policeman pointing an assault rifle at him and telling him to stop... ???
___
 

The Bread Guy

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uncle-midget-boyd said:
I wonder if "End the Mission" realizes that the 300 Afghan civilians killed by NATO last year were accidental, and that the 374 (how HRW was able to pinpoint those numbers, I don't know, and I very much doubt the accuracy of those numbers) that were killed by the Taliban were all intentional.

And, if HRW had the resources (and/or the will) to look deeper into the 300, I wonder how many of them could be linked to bad guys using civvies as screens?

Like it or not, in a democracy, we have to put up with other opinions, uninformed as they may be.  That said, we can always use the same venues to put our comments out there as well, and we can rate comments we agree with high so (on the systems that use a rating system) those comments get closer to the top.  Gotta try to beat 'em at their own game...
 

RCR Grunt

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milnewstbay said:
And, if HRW had the resources (and/or the will) to look deeper into the 300, I wonder how many of them could be linked to bad guys using civvies as screens?

Like it or not, in a democracy, we have to put up with other opinions, uninformed as they may be.  That said, we can always use the same venues to put our comments out there as well, and we can rate comments we agree with high so (on the systems that use a rating system) those comments get closer to the top.  Gotta try to beat 'em at their own game...

I'd prefer just to beat them.
 

Edward Campbell

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JAWS228 said:
Posted of course, by the lovely folks at the G&M comment boards regarding the shooting incident in Afghanistan of the 2 children and their father...this guy is just rtfo.......... :brickwall:
...
Some people are so ignorant its amazing.......I wonder what this guy thinks would happen to him if he drove straight at a policeman pointing an assault rifle at him and telling him to stop... ???
___

The web, for all its real benefits, is a crude place – unrefined. In many (most?) ‘places’ almost anyone can and may say anything – often, if a bit of care is taken, with virtual anonymity.

Establishing, operating and maintaining a discussion forum with anything like a reasonable level of ‘accountability’ is a major undertaking: just ask Mike Bobbitt and his hard working moderators and the subscribers here at Milnet.ca. Most media outlets, like the CBC* and the Globe and Mail are unwilling to spend the money necessary to do that. Put simply, they cannot justify the costs.

But, Canadians are perceived to want to comment on the news – and some do. But the sad fact, it appears to me, is that most users of most media comment sections are mindless partisans – they are either 100% committed to this, that or the other party, and quite unable to see the faults in their party’s platform (and there are real faults in all party positions), or they are 100% opposed to a party and equally unable to see that, for all its real faults, that party has some useful positions, as all do.

The end result is that comment sections are overwhelmed with the mindless partisans. Those, relatively few, I think, Canadians who might want to make a sensible comment are deterred by the nonsense spouted by the partisans.

My suggestion: read the Globe and Mail (or the National Post or the Star Pheonix, etc, etc) listen to/watch CBC and CTV (and Global and, and, and ...) but, for the sake of your sanity, stay away from the comments sections – maybe all the mindless, clueless partisans will stay here and save our diligent moderators the problems associated with our warning/banning system.

Let’s also welcome refugees from the mainstream media – many without any military experience – who will be ignorant of our customs and methods. Let’s address their questions and comments and opinions fairly and politely – as we would hope to be addressed, ourselves.


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* The CBC had a properly moderated web site a few years ago. They had to close it. Resources for e.g. moderation were insufficient. The most that most media outlets can or will do is to require some sort of registration. Unlike Milnet.ca, most media outlets do not cross check registrants' IP addresses, etc.


Edit: typo
 

The Bread Guy

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E.R. Campbell said:
Let’s also welcome refugees from the mainstream media – many without any military experience – who will be ignorant of our customs and methods. Let’s address their questions and comments and opinions fairly and politely – as we would hope to be addressed, ourselves.

Here here!

E.R. Campbell said:
The web, for all its real benefits, is a crude place – unrefined. In many (most?) ‘places’ almost anyone can and may say anything – often, if a bit of care is taken, with virtual anonymity.

Establishing, operating and maintaining a discussion forum with anything like a reasonable level of ‘accountability’ is a major undertaking: just ask Mike Bobbitt and his hard working moderators and the subscribers here at Milnet.ca. Most media outlets, like the CBC* and the Globe and Mail are unwilling to spend the money necessary to do that. Put simply, they cannot justify the costs.

But, Canadians are perceived to want to comment on the news – and some do. But the sad fact, it appears to me, is that most users of most media comment sections are mindless partisans – they are either 100% committed to this, that or the other party, and quite unable to see the faults in their party’s platform (and there are real faults in all party positions), or they are 100% opposed to a party and equally unable to see that, for all its real faults, that party has some useful positions, as all do.

The end result is that comment sections are overwhelmed with the mindless partisans. Those, relatively few, I think, Canadians who might want to make a sensible comment are deterred by the nonsense spouted by the partisans.

My suggestion: read the Globe and Mail (or the National Post or the Star Pheonix, etc, etc) listen to/watch CBC and CTV (and Global and, and, and ...) but, for the sake of your sanity, stay away from the comments sections

Maybe I'm naive, but in the spirit of "better to light one candle than curse the darkness", I think without the other side in the comment fora, the record forever stays stuck in the same groove.  How long do I think it will take to change?  Good question - how long does it take to change attitudes?    Still, for me, gotta post comments, gotta keep it civil and gotta keep doing it.  Also, as Sun Tzu said, "Know your enemy and know yourself, find naught in fear for 100 battles".

E.R. Campbell said:
maybe all the mindless, clueless partisans will stay here and save our diligent moderators the problems associated with our warning/banning system.

C'mon - SOMETIMES it can be interesting, if only to see the lack of a viable alternative from the other side....  ;)
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/62465.0.html
 

WannaBeFlyer

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The CF has always traditionally been a convenient warehouse for the socially undesirable, unhealthy, and unemployable. Why the surprise when we open the doors and let them roam loose with a licence to kill amongst innocent defenseless civilians. Just wait till they all come home to hero's welcome. You reap what you sew, people.

      Pfff.
      /
    ::)

Personally, I never hit the view comment button on news articles. I hear enough eye rolling comments about the the CF and Afghanistan without introducing a new platform. That and I really don't care how anybody with internet access feels on a subject they clearly have no experience or education on.
 

yak

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Sometimes you need to do yourself a favor and avoid the comments section on CBC.ca or other similar forums.

If you must, read the comments with the mindset that perhaps it is a blessing that we live in a society that has so many members that are inexperienced in warfare and oblivous to the brutality that people visit upon each other.  We have a population whose life has been, for the most part, spent in isolation from the horrors that are common across the globe, and that deployed troops witness while serving their country.  I think it's natural that a portion of our population will come to think that peace is free.  So that speaks for the security which we enjoy in Canada, as infuriating as some of the comments can be, it may be a sign that we, as a country, are enormously lucky.  Since they've not seen the scars of war or the incredible poverty the world over, many people (some who I count as friends) do not truly understand how damn lucky we are.

Personally, I find the "bring the troops home" comments to be callous and selfish.  Why should Canada, one of the richest countries in the world, not aid Afghanistan when their government requests help and the whole thing is UN sanctioned?  Since when are our rights and freedoms more sacred than the people in any other country?  But that point is never addressed by people who say we should leave Afghanistan to its own devices.  Probably because they do not view anything as worth fighting for - as they have other people standing up and doing the fighting for them.  It's a pity that they can't recognize that. 

Some of the usual posters on CBC.ca can't say anything positive on any topic, especially the police, military, or the government.  They are apparently a disaffected minority and you shouldn't let them get to you.  If you've been there and seen what goes on, you know what's been accomplished, what has worked and what hasn't.  The naysayers are not interested in any opinion that goes against their jaundiced world view.  Once you understand that, they don't get under your skin nearly as much.

 

Greymatters

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To me, its not a case of getting under my skin so much as doing something to counter the uninformed and malicious comments.  Untruths spread well when not directly challenged.  Besides, I'm retired and can spare a few moments out of my busy schedule...


 

Strike

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yak,

I think you should copy everything you just posted and keep it somewhere safe to post in the "comments" whenever it is needed.  Damn, that was good.
 

yak

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I gave up on posting on comment pages for the most part.  Feel free to take what you want and post away...many aspects of what has come to be my view on this matter have originated or been shaped by posts on this site anyway.

 

The Bread Guy

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Greymatters said:
Untruths spread well when not directly challenged.

Not to mention the fact that truths unspread never see the light of day....
 

Celticgirl

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yak said:
Sometimes you need to do yourself a favor and avoid the comments section on CBC.ca or other similar forums.

If you must, read the comments with the mindset that perhaps it is a blessing that we live in a society that has so many members that are inexperienced in warfare and oblivous to the brutality that people visit upon each other.  We have a population whose life has been, for the most part, spent in isolation from the horrors that are common across the globe, and that deployed troops witness while serving their country.  I think it's natural that a portion of our population will come to think that peace is free.  So that speaks for the security which we enjoy in Canada, as infuriating as some of the comments can be, it may be a sign that we, as a country, are enormously lucky.  Since they've not seen the scars of war or the incredible poverty the world over, many people (some who I count as friends) do not truly understand how damn lucky we are.

This is a great way of looking at it, and I think you are definitely onto something here. Nonetheless, I find the lack of compassion among some Canadians pretty disturbing. Where does that attitude manifest?

yak said:
Personally, I find the "bring the troops home" comments to be callous and selfish.  Why should Canada, one of the richest countries in the world, not aid Afghanistan when their government requests help and the whole thing is UN sanctioned?  Since when are our rights and freedoms more sacred than the people in any other country?  But that point is never addressed by people who say we should leave Afghanistan to its own devices.  Probably because they do not view anything as worth fighting for - as they have other people standing up and doing the fighting for them.  It's a pity that they can't recognize that. 

This is the lack of compassion I referred to above. I hear many discussions about how badly women are treated in countries like Afghanistan and the various atrocities around the world, yet those same people say we have "no business invading" these places. Invading? How about responding to cries for help? Shouldn't the "haves" help the "have nots" on this planet? Why do Canadians deserve all these freedoms and Afghans or other citizens of the world not? I didn't choose where I was born...did anyone else?  ::)

 

2 Cdo

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This is a great way of looking at it, and I think you are definitely onto something here. Nonetheless, I find the lack of compassion among some Canadians pretty disturbing. Where does that attitude manifest?

Primarily from our "tolerant" lefties in society, who only tolerate those who agree with them!

This is the lack of compassion I referred to above. I hear many discussions about how badly women are treated in countries like Afghanistan and the various atrocities around the world, yet those same people say we have "no business invading" these places. Invading? How about responding to cries for help? Shouldn't the "haves" help the "have nots" on this planet? Why do Canadians deserve all these freedoms and Afghans or other citizens of the world not? I didn't choose where I was born...did anyone else? 

Selfishness and an ever present anti-Americanism. If the US wasn't involved in Afghanistan but the UN wearing blue berets was, I would bet a years pay that Jack and the NDP would fully support us being there and helping the poor Afghan people.
 

TrexLink

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E.R. Campbell said:
My suggestion: read the Globe and Mail (or the National Post or the Star Pheonix, etc, etc) listen to/watch CBC and CTV (and Global and, and, and ...) but, for the sake of your sanity, stay away from the comments sections – maybe all the mindless, clueless partisans will stay here and save our diligent moderators the problems associated with our warning/banning system.

On the contrary, I think it is most necessary for those who know what the facts are to speak up, to counter the voices of ignorance and bias, however frustrating it may be. This is a chance to inform the public, to influence public opinion. That's not the mindless sheep and their antiwar rhetoric (you can't change them), but rather the middle-of-the-road reader who might otherwise be swayed by what he sees as a majority opposed to the CF. The best way to counter a lie is to drag it out into the open and compare it with the truth.
 

vonGarvin

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2 Cdo said:
Selfishness and an ever present anti-Americanism. If the US wasn't involved in Afghanistan but the UN wearing blue berets was, I would bet a years pay that Jack and the NDP would fully support us being there and helping the poor Afghan people.
If Barack Obama wins the upcoming presidential election in the US, the NDP (soon to be DP) will be all over the map about Afghanistan (my prediction).  Just as socialists (of the commie type, not the nationalist type) were all over Germany for its actions in Spain in the late 1930s, they did a hearty "FLOP" in August 1939 with the signing of the non-aggression pact between Tavarisch Stalin and Herr Hitler.
 
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