Offr-NCO-NCM Relationships

[nbk]

This thread is interesting...talking about names...and talking about Rommel...

Well my last name is Rommel...coincidence or conspiracy? Hmmmm...

 

[Mr. Ted]

I think the old adage, "Familiarity breeds contempt" is a nice summary for the idea of maintaining distance between NCMs and comissioned officers.

Mr. Ted

 

[CF_MacAulay]

Okay i dont know much but by what i have been reading and what i have expirenced in personal life is that an Officer needs to be a role model, een though he could be 2 inches from your face screaming at you, you still follow him, if he was personal with you, he would hesitate about yelling, he wouldnt be as aggressive he needs to be with you to show you the prper know how, and all of those officers have earned there right to be where they are, even if it wasnt going on tour to bosnia, but instead going through 2 years community college...so what, they used their heads to work for them...an officer is ther to do his job...and so are you..the military isnt a club or personal hobby..someday you could be faced with the order to go into a dangerous situation and fire at people..and if an officer had the thought of sending a "buddy" into that danger...he wouldnt use his professional knowledge, he would use his instincts. but really im not saying anything that wasnt mentioned in this post...so sorry if i wasted any ones time, but thats what these posts are for, our opinions..

 

[043]

Okay, lets put it out there for comments, both pos and neg.

I am off the opinion and always have been that Offrs hang with Offrs, NCO's hang with NCO's, and NCM's hang with NCM's. Reason being is that familiarity breeds contempt.
There are a few occasions where it is okay but only on a professional basis.....Mess Dinners and Official Functions, Christmas parties without extensive mingling.


Anyways, lets here your comments please................and I would like to here why anyone thimks that it is okay.

Not that I want to stop people from commenting but please if you are reg, res, or civ, please indicate as such. If you haven't lived it or don't understand the military CoC please don't comment.

Chimo!

 

[ChopperHead]

Well as im not in the military yet i dont understand the complexitys of it all but could someone explain why it would be an issue at all? why is it such a horrible thing that an officer actually talks to or befriends a NCM? I would think that it shouldnt matter, If so and so are friends then I wouldnt care personally and going for NCM myself I wouldnt mind being friends with Officers or if Officers wanted to sit with me or whatever.

 

[Scott]

Did you actually read the above post?

Here's the quote from the post that answers your question:

Reason being is that familiarity breeds contempt.

2023, how do you think the military's way of doing things should translate into para military type organizations? ie. Fire Dept's (Yes, there is a gooooood reason I ask)

Edit: Sorry 2023, you must have edited your post while I was composing mine. I am a civvy firefighter former PRes.

 

[043]

Did you actually read the above post?

Here's the quote from the post that answers your question:
2023, how do you think the military's way of doing things should translate into para military type organizations? ie. Fire Dept's (Yes, there is a gooooood reason I ask)

Well I am not really qualifed to answer however I can give you my opinion on what I would expect...I would expect it to be along the same lines as the Military.  If I am a Captain or sometihing similar and I have a constable who I am responsible to write assessments on, how can I be expected to fairly assess him if I am involved socially with him? Even if I could, I am afraid that the perception would be something that would be difficult to deal with whether it was true or not. Better off just to stay in my own world as far as I am concerned.

Make any sense out of that?

 

[NCRCrow]

Navy is traditionally divided --Officers and NCO's never "hang out" (I am sure there are exceptions)

better that way!

 

[043]

Edit: Sorry 2023, you must have edited your post while I was composing mine. I am a civvy firefighter former PRes.


No sweat Scott, it's all good!

 

[Scott]

2023, it's all good.

I expected that answer and have to say that I agree, to a point. I think we are a bit more social in the fire service and a bit more informal, it's the nature of our job compared with a member of the CF. That's not to say that there isn't segregation, because there is, I just don't see it as clearly defined. We don't have tables for Chiefs, tables for Captains, tables for firefighters and tables for rookies - but you will see most officers sitting out of the banter, for the most part - just as an example.

IMO, it works. But it also works for those who are more personal with their crew. The crew they have understands that when the bell rings it's not playtime anymore and they are still able to function to their fullest, I see no harm in that. Can the military operate this way? No, not in my opinion, too big and too diverse. Plus the system they have inplace is tried, tested and true.

That's the end of my babble for now.

 

[043]

Well said!

 

[gnplummer421]

Greetings,

I've had both positive and some negative experiences with Officers while I was in the army. In  2 Svc Bn, we had a Col. who loved to move at night constantly during Ex's and then work all during the day, dig trenches yadda yadda, but he kinda forgot about what happens to a soldier's driving skills after being awake for extended periods of time. He was should I say...overly ambitious.

On the other hand, while I served with the Hussars in Germany I had the privilege of knowing some outstanding examples of the Officer Corps. Strong leaders, fair, protective of the troops, and they let the RSM/SSM's do their jobs. God knows our Maint. troop could have gotten our butts thrown in jail a few times for our shenanigans (sp) but let's not go there

I firmly believe that the Officer who is genuinely passionate about the welfare of his/her troops, ends up getting the most respect in return...and respect is the key ingredient.

Gnplummer421

 

[OLD F of S]

    I agree with the post , but there are some exceptions while I served in CFS Bermuda i belonged to a combined mess Snr Ncos and Officers in many ways this complimented our day to day work. I was posted from there to a sigs regt where a combined mess could not have worked without affecting the chain of command. Besides it is not good policy for Sgt Majors to punch out Jr Officers.



                                  Regards OLD F OF S

 

[on guard for thee]

Ahh...The Officer / NCO / NCM question...

Let's start by addressing the word relationship...It seems to me that many of us are guilty of tying certain connotations to this word that are not always appropriate. Two members (regardless of rank) who interact in this profession have, by definition, a relationship. The nature of military service makes this a reality. I believe that the type of relationship is the question.

I, as an officer, can have a positive working relationship with my NCOs and NCMs. This does not prohibit us from being a bit on the jocular side when discussing our hockey pool standings. That being said, it is the duty and responsibility of Officers and NCOs to ensure that the degree and nature of these relationships do not, and will not, inhibit the professional requirements of our profession. This can be a fine line, and therefore some common sense should prevail:

As a leader, ensure this line is never approached, let alone crossed. If you are uncertain you can do this, then do not entertain this type of relationship.

My 2 cents...

(Officer, Reg Force)

 

[043]

Very well said and I agree with you 100%!!!!

 

[Kat Stevens]

sort of like playground politics if you ask me.  I had lots of GOOD FRIENDS who got promoted.  They were told that they were no longer allowed to play with me, I suppose I was no longer worthy of their friendship, as I was one of those fat, lazy, stupid lifer Cpls everyone on here likes to run their gobs about.  My opinion, if you can just turn off a lifelong friendship, you weren't a friend in the first place, so go piss up a rope.

 

[beach_bum]

That's exactly it.  Over the years a lot of my friends have been promoted (I'm on the CFL program) or become Officers.  We have remained friends throughout all of this.  When we are at work however, we maintain a professional relationship.  That's work.  Outside of work though...we are friends. 

 

[Kat Stevens]

that wasn't the gyst of the OP.  it was a question on whether we should "stick to our own, dear boy, eh, wot" or not, in and out of a work environment.  As an addition to this, it used to drive me up a wall when an "old buddy" would conveniently remember who I was when he  needed wanted something.  Good thing I'm just a thick old sod, or I might have caught on to that trick eventuallty.

 

[ZipperHead]

I think that the issue here is when people "cross the line" and become too familiar and friendly with the troops. I have friends that are Corporals, but at work they know where to call me by rank, and where they can call me by first name. And I also know the game, and play accordingly. I still have a hard time calling people above me by their first name, unless I know them socially, and/or went through the ranks with them once upon a time.

I have a hard time imagining myself "friendly" (first name basis, going to their house for drinks) with an officer (especially one in the Corps). Because there could come the day when they order me to place my life, and my troops lives in harm's way (corny saying, but gets the point across), and the last thing that needs to be going through anyone's mind is "I can't do that to my bud!!". Or if they have to charge me.

There is a reason why there is a rank structure, and I cringe when those that come through the huggy-kissy system say that we shouldn't have ranks, and we should all be on a first name basis. That's what the Air Force is for, for crissakes, not the Army. And when was the last time they ever went to war?! Cool your jets, any boys (or girls) in blue. I'm only sort of kidding (and what are you doing at Army.ca, anyway? Seeing how the other half live (from your 5 star hotel)??? Virtual slumming, I 'spose  > )

Al

 

[Gunnar]

Because there could come the day when they order me to place my life, and my troops lives in harm's way

You don't have that problem with NCM's?  Because strictly speaking there could come a day where YOU have to give the order that they will hold "X hill" and that "they will remain".