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OCdts in Leadership Positions Discussion

DeweyDecimal

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SeaKingTacco said:
This is my real concern- is this dude, stupid enough to unmask himself by speaking at a public rally, the tip of an iceberg? Has COATs been infiltrated by mouth breathers like him who now can influence an entire generation of kids?

LittleBlackDevil said:
Keep in mind that there are something on the order of 7,500 CIC officers. So in any organization that large I suspect it's nearly impossible to screen out all the idiots ... there will be a few that slip through.

These "very special individuals" appear in the organization from time to time (I've met less than an handful during my 20+ years).  And these "very special individuals" cause an extraordinary amount of chaos and grief. They get trough because even the greatest weirdos can usually manage to keep their act together for a few hours a weeks.

They are usually dealt with but unfortunately because of the structure of the organization and of CIC service, it sometimes takes time.
 

ballz

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Jarnhamar said:
I didn't think anyone was getting bent out of shape. It's an interesting topic.

It is interesting and I'm not bent out of the shape, I thoroughly enjoy the topic.

I should have fell back to the Supreme Court, who have decided that reasonable hypotheticals can be used to argue against the validity of a certain law. I think that's a good rule for our own discourse and I should probably try to stick to it myself a little more.

In your case, I believe you were pointing out the weakness/fault in our rank structure, by pointing to the hypothetical situation of an OCdt being in charge of an RSM or CSM. For the reasons I noted, and FJAG noted, I don't think that's a reasonable hypothetical because there would just be so many other options available (shuffling the OCdt out of the company, battlefield commissions, intervention from higher, reconstituting, etc.), and that's not even accounting for the fact that we don't deploy non-OFP people. So I don't think that example is a very good argument against our rank system, because it's an unreasonable one.

I like playing hypotheticals, so I did try to play with yours, which was probably my error. Some people are less persuaded/interested in hypotheticals. Different brains problem solve in different ways, that's just the way humans are.

The second part was generically about "who is responsible when something goes wrong." Some have said the CO is always responsible. I think that's as silly as the situation of a CO being told to conquer China. I should have used a reasonable hypothetical to demonstrate the point. But the point was, responsibility can fall on higher than the CO, or sometimes lower than the CO. Like I said, I think the delineating factor is who accepts the risks... and that may mean more than one level of Command is responsible, as well.

And lastly, regarding 2Lts. I was OFP as a 2Lt and made a Platoon Commander in 2 RCR. At some the training wheels have to come off and one has to start their job for real, everyone's got to go through having their "firsts." I could have spent an extra year doing formal training, I could have spent three extra years doing formal training, in the hopes that my very first kicks at the can in a Battalion training context would be smoother. Eventually more formal training starts to give diminishing returns, and at some point it's still going to be your first try at it without the training wheels on.
 

SeaKingTacco

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Everyone is a Coy Comd for the first time....

Everyone is a CO for the first time...

Everyone is a Bde Comd for the first time...

Like Ballz, I agree that on some level, eventually everyone has to leave the training environment and do the job for real and it probably not go awesomely smooth out of the gate. This is where the support and guidance of both your subordinates and superiors comes into play to help one get comfortable in their new role.
 

daftandbarmy

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SeaKingTacco said:
Everyone is a Coy Comd for the first time....

Everyone is a CO for the first time...

Everyone is a Bde Comd for the first time...

Like Ballz, I agree that on some level, eventually everyone has to leave the training environment and do the job for real and it probably not go awesomely smooth out of the gate. This is where the support and guidance of both your subordinates and superiors comes into play to help one get comfortable in their new role.

And, based on what I've seen in civvy street over the past couple of decades, the CAF does this better than just about anyone else.
 

PPCLI Guy

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SeaKingTacco said:
Everyone is a Coy Comd for the first time....

Everyone is a CO for the first time...

Everyone is a Bde Comd for the first time...

Like Ballz, I agree that on some level, eventually everyone has to leave the training environment and do the job for real and it probably not go awesomely smooth out of the gate. This is where the support and guidance of both your subordinates and superiors comes into play to help one get comfortable in their new role.

I would happily go back for a second try on all three of those...
 

FJAG

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Favourite job, hands down, is gun position officer.

The smell of cordite, winning regimental adjustments, tent group bullshitting sessions.

;D
 

SeaKingTacco

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FJAG said:
Favourite job, hands down, is gun position officer.

The smell of cordite, winning regimental adjustments, tent group bullshitting sessions.

;D

Favourite job, hands down, was Commanding Officer.

I loved the people and the sheer variety of the issues.
 

Haggis

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Pl WO was my favourite Army job, follwed by RSM. Commissioning was not fun at all and I retired three years afterwards.

Now, I have an awesomely fun job  with a federal law enforcement agency and I'm loving it.
 

SeaKingTacco

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SeaKingTacco said:
Favourite job, hands down, was Commanding Officer.

I loved the people and the sheer variety of the issues.

Second favourite was Troop Commander. I enjoyed the mud, outdoors, and soldier humour.
 

CBH99

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I'll bite, albeit my favourite job wasn't as senior as what many of you have listed.

Favourite job, by far, was Recruiting & Community Relations.

Was a chance to go interact with folks, chat, talk, network, educate people on what the military is really like, answer questions, and do some really fun things in the community just to build good relations.  (Painting kids faces, putting up static displays, taking pictures of dads & sons holding C7's with their war face on, etc.)  Was just good times, and met a lot of good people :)


Was nice to get away from the parade square for a while
 

SeaKingTacco

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CBH99 said:
I'll bite, albeit my favourite job wasn't as senior as what many of you have listed.

Favourite job, by far, was Recruiting & Community Relations.

Was a chance to go interact with folks, chat, talk, network, educate people on what the military is really like, answer questions, and do some really fun things in the community just to build good relations.  (Painting kids faces, putting up static displays, taking pictures of dads & sons holding C7's with their war face on, etc.)  Was just good times, and met a lot of good people :)


Was nice to get away from the parade square for a while

That is a good one!
 
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