Observations about Admins

[kratz]

To the Op:

Building on George Wallace's post, all to often, too many people ignore what they agree to for the site standards and then become upset when as a forum, it is enforced. Much like joining the military is a learning curve, it is with this site...who mirror our Canadian military culture.

Your posts are useful. Sniping, not so much.

 

[Scott]

I can only speak from my experience as a mod and as a member of these forums.

I wander by some of those repetitive posts and marvel at the work a guy like mariomike does to go and chase down the links and post them for the benefit of the OP. Seeing this over the years makes me kind of lazy in that I rarely look in on those posts because I know they'll be handled or they'll just die, no action is actually required.

I think it takes less effort to be kind to someone than to immediately be a dick, and even less till to just surf on by. There are always exceptions and with some the exceptions become the rule.

Sometimes the hardest thing to say is nothing. I try to keep that in mind.

 

[mba2011]

I am going to add my unsolicited 2 cents about this thread, simply because I can.

This site can be a tremendous resource. The information that can be found on this site is fantastic, and can be very helpful. That said; there is, at times, a negative view of this site, because of the actions of some members. I completely understand the DS and other member's frustrations with repeat questions and redundant posts; but in some cases, it is handled poorly.

One poinent example comes to mind. A new user posted a question about a trade and the courses he would have to complete to reach OFP in that trade, along with a few closely related questions. Rather than a courteous/polite/socially acceptable response, he was berated and decried for not using the search by a member (no names no pack drill), which was followed up by a PM. The OP, who I know outside of the military by reputation in the field, was completely dumbfounded that a question was met by such a response. Before I said anything, I searched for answers to his questions, and after 20 mins, I had not yet found a satisfactory response. Following that, I messaged the Op, and apologized, as a member of this site for the reply he got, and gave him the answer to his question which was within my arcs and experience. Aside from the 20 mins I spent searching just to see what I could find, it took me under 2 mins to provide a civil response and help direct his questions that I could not answer.

As stated, I completely understand the frustrations of the redundant questions. It takes a few seconds to paste a response of "Use the search function/read the guidelines" but it would only take a few more to provide a civil answer or even guidance. This site is a fantastic resource, but if we as members (myself included) drive away people or discourage them from joining in the discussions, what is the point of the site?

Again, my unsolicited 2 cents.

 

[cupper]

https://m.reddit.com/r/CanadianForces/comments/2ax2lq/spotted_this_on_armyca/

George, I think They are on to you.

I think George Wallace has "did you search the forums" on a macro key. Gotta get that post count up! The sites a joke.

 

[mariomike]

A thread I remember, and re-read today. It may be relevant to this discussion. Our Site Owner was an active participant,

On asking questions & hostile dog-pile replies.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/90702.0.html
4 pages.

 

[Scott]

A thread I remember, and re-read today. It may be relevant to this discussion. Our Site Owner was an active participant,

On asking questions & hostile dog-pile replies.
http://army.ca/forums/threads/90702.0.html
4 pages.

Ah, so was I.

Glad I have less time and have mellowed a bunch since then. 8)

 

[RedcapCrusader]

Honestly, I thought the same thing when I first signed up.

However, over time, especially now that I am responsible for training and caring for new and potential recruits; it is much preferred that they do their homework.

It shows good initiative and is also a good judge of character. Far more often I've come across a potential recruit that had done ZERO ground work themselves, come to me and get the run down. Get through the Recruiting process, sworn in, only to jump ship when they're told they have to shave, or cut their hair, or that they have to work long hours on little sleep.

I stopped wasting my time.

I'd ask what they know about the CAF, the Army, the MP Branch; if they didn't have basic knowledge and expectations, I'd give them a little taste and then tell them to do a little more research online or at the CFRC. If they did, I'd lay the nitty and gritty on them and let them sleep on it.

Since adapting to my new approach, I've had much more suitable recruits come across my desk.

TL;DR: There needs to be a fine balance between leaving them to sink or swim, and spoon feeding them.

I'm all for supporting and mentoring newbies, but they have to show they want it.

 

[BeaverMan]

Was just about to post about the same issue when I came across this thread. I'm  not new to the military but am new to this site. I myself am in the process of reenlisting under a new MOC and am looking for information on the new trade I am hoping to join. I'm used to using other sites search function and have tried doing so with this site but in some cases in recent post were people were asking the same questions I'm looking for are directed to posts as far back as 2003 and the information is greatly out of date. I know once enrolled and with access to the DWAN a lot more information will open up to me but for now people like myself don't have many options on where to find information. It wouldn't hurt that before posting links to previous posts the people replying check the post themselves to see if the information contained is still valid before giving out of date and misinformation.

 

[mariomike]

Ah, so was I.

Glad I have less time and have mellowed a bunch since then. 8)

Remember this Scott? "Dogpile the Nurturer!"  It's a tough crowd.

They say spoon-feeding adults only teaches them the shape of the spoon.

I'm used to using other sites search function and have tried doing so with this site but in some cases in recent post were people were asking the same questions I'm looking for are directed to posts as far back as 2003 and the information is greatly out of date.

Why not ask your questions in that thread? Your Q and A's will keep the thread up to date.

Disclaimer

Milnet.ca is a private effort, and is in no way sponsored by or connected to the Department Of National Defence, the Canadian Forces, or any other military organization. Milnet.ca is not supported in any manner, either official or unofficial. As a result, it often does not get the time or resources that it often requires, however it also means that it can operate without the worry of following official administrative guidelines and restrictions.

Despite this freedom, Milnet.ca attempts to provide accurate and timely information of interest to serving and potential members of the CF, however any information obtained from this page comes "as is" and it's accuracy cannot be guaranteed.

The only sure thing on here is Ask a CAF Recruiter.

 

[BeaverMan]

Why not ask your questions in that thread?

Another smaller issue I've found with that issue is people who do this are often belittled for bumping an old thread by posting in it. It's kind of a catch 22. The funniest one I found was when someone did ask a question in an old thread looking for more information they were given a link to the same thread they posted in.

 

[mariomike]

Another smaller issue I've found with that issue is people who do this are often belittled for bumping an old thread by posting in it. It's kind of a catch 22.

I use this Sticky from a Moderator and the Site Owner as my guideline,

Necroposting - Not always a bad idea
http://army.ca/forums/threads/87278.0.html

Potential Applicants can Ask a CAF Recruiter. DAA and Sgt. Laen are always very helpful.

READ FIRST Sticky from Captain Mark in Ask a CAF Recruiter, "Before you ask a question, you should be searching the forum or the Forces.ca website for these answers."
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/115341.0.html

Others have provided their expertise and knowledge without being Mentors or Admins, such as DAA. 

Some have even become Subscribers or Donors. 

 

[bang]

Howdy,

The OP has a big point, despite the shortcomings in his arguments (volunteers are mean, etc etc). This site is structured off of late 90's to early-2000's tech, a long time before search optimization became a big thing in the minds of most developers. I want to offer knowledge of other tools in case the repetitive questions ever become too much for the mods and admins.

First, I want to separate the types of topics which I see into two abstract categories: First, you have the banter, shop-talk, news, gossip and all the stuff that's suitable for a bulletin board structure like this site. What you have here is perfect for opinions, observations and the like. The other type of topics involve questions where there is only one correct answer. Those are the sort of topics you may see individuals asking over and over again...

In programming and development, a site called Stack Overflow (Site - Wiki) appeared and became the choice destination for Q+A. Instead of a "File Explorer"-style directory structure common in bulletin boards such as Milnet.ca, there's a search bar, some tags, and a legion of moderators and volunteers who gain privilege by giving solid answers to questions by their peers for basic rights such as commenting, adding tags or even editing the original post for syntax and phrasing. In addition, admins are elected or appointed who have magical powers, not unlike here. I get stuck with humdiggers all of a time in my day-to-day civie job, but I find that these style Q+A boards have been my salvation, my code review, and a place where I can learn through the toils of the others. Heck, I barely post as most of my questions get asked twice. But that's not a really big deal as all duplicate questions tend to get linked to the original question - something that creates original content in the algorithms that drive search engine results, meaning it becomes more likely that Google or another search engine can pick up the answer before the newbie has to dig within the site...

Has Milnet.ca considered creating a separate Q+A section for members modeled after a Stack Overflow-clone? I've checked whether someone else has brought it up via the search and it may be an original thought. If so, there's plenty of clones out there. Here is a link that lists them all - in the form of a Stack Overflow clone...

While I'm showing off this new toy, I want to be clear that I don't intend to be derisive to all the volunteers who keep the content of this site at the highest standard. You do a good job. But if a future deluge of repetitive questions ever gets too much and those in charge wish to iterate, this is a tech that's been around since 2008 and still is strong in finding solutions to many problems.

 

[George Wallace]

Another smaller issue I've found with that issue is people who do this are often belittled for bumping an old thread by posting in it. It's kind of a catch 22. The funniest one I found was when someone did ask a question in an old thread looking for more information they were given a link to the same thread they posted in.

Often that is a result of a "Clean up" where several topics covering the same question are being merged to one to cut down on searching and reading several threads and getting timelines mixed up.  Although you may find some of the info dated, it may still be relevant; or as the threads are merged, you can read the changes that have taken place over time to the answer to that question. 

 

[George Wallace]

George, I think They are on to you.

Yes.  And I have a feeling I know some of them as well.  TheCapedMoosesader sounds oh so familiar to a person I know.  That site has also attracted many of the malcontents who had been raising shyte on this site, or were unhappy not getting the answers they wanted to hear here; some being a case of "if I can't get what I want from Dad, I will ask Mom."

As you can see, by reading their posts, we have persons who prefer their style of website, just as we have persons who prefer the style of this website.  Everyone is free to visit either or; or both. 

This being the internet, it is often too easy to offend when offence is not intended.  Some people are offended too easily.  Some people read or write posts and interpret then in ways that were not intended.  How often have you seen someone get offended by a reply that simply said "No", when they had asked a question expecting a long positive answer to that question?

A couple years ago, we had to admit that this site's SEARCH function does not work as well as it should.  We seriously advise people to use Google, enter in their search parameters "army.ca, question/key words" and use Google.

 

 

[George Wallace]

The OP has a big point, despite the shortcomings in his arguments (volunteers are mean, etc etc). This site is structured off of late 90's to early-2000's tech, a long time before search optimization became a big thing in the minds of most developers.

We have acknowledged that shortcoming in the site SEARCH function, and have been recommending the use of Google to find army.ca/milnet.ca/navy.ca/airforce.ca forums  (all actually the same, just different colour formats)

First, I want to separate the types of topics which I see into two abstract categories: First, you have the banter, shop-talk, news, gossip and all the stuff that's suitable for a bulletin board structure like this site. What you have here is perfect for opinions, observations and the like. The other type of topics involve questions where there is only one correct answer. Those are the sort of topics you may see individuals asking over and over again...

I am not sure how you browse this site, but do you look at this index page and the subsequent sub-index pages, and does it not fill your request:

http://army.ca/forums/index.php

Reference abstract categories, does Radio Chatter not fill that bill?

In programming and development, a site called Stack Overflow (Site - Wiki) appeared and became the choice destination for Q+A. Instead of a "File Explorer"-style directory structure common in bulletin boards such as Milnet.ca, there's a search bar, some tags, and a legion of moderators and volunteers who gain privilege by giving solid answers to questions by their peers for basic rights such as commenting, adding tags or even editing the original post for syntax and phrasing. In addition, admins are elected or appointed who have magical powers, not unlike here. I get stuck with humdiggers all of a time in my day-to-day civie job, but I find that these style Q+A boards have been my salvation, my code review, and a place where I can learn through the toils of the others. Heck, I barely post as most of my questions get asked twice. But that's not a really big deal as all duplicate questions tend to get linked to the original question - something that creates original content in the algorithms that drive search engine results, meaning it becomes more likely that Google or another search engine can pick up the answer before the newbie has to dig within the site...

Yes.  We often point newbies to Google to preform a more effective SEARCH.

This site does have a Wiki although it is very seldom visited (to the best of my knowledge):  http://army.ca/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

This site is constantly changing.  The ASK A CAF RECRUITER was added last year with actual CAF Recruiters handling the questions.  We are debating adding a few other forums to deal with Emergency Planning or something along those lines.  The site is not stagnant, but we also have to remember that as a privately owned site, the bandwidth and storage that we have available is also limited.

Has Milnet.ca considered creating a separate Q+A section for members modeled after a Stack Overflow-clone? I've checked whether someone else has brought it up via the search and it may be an original thought. If so, there's plenty of clones out there. Here is a link that lists them all - in the form of a Stack Overflow clone...

Hopefully, the Site owner can decipher all your points and give you an answer to whether the site can handle such modifications.  The other factor is the membership and what style of site they prefer to surf.

 

[MasterInstructor]

I totally agree with the OP. This is not a welcoming environment. I joined about 7 years ago and learned my lesson very quickly not to post here unless I really needed to. I kept my activity to a minimum. Sometimes it is a good source of information but mostly I hear admins, moderators or other old users giving shit to people. If you are going to take time to respond, either respond with some information or do not respond. Do not waste your time and add a reply that does not contribute anything.

 

[Scott]

The site does tend to (still) eat some people more quickly than others. I can raise my hand in having a part of that in the past, but also put my hand up and state that I have been trying to be a part of a change. I am sure we have banned people for the wrong reasons, people who could contribute and people who just had a wrong run in with someone and had no recourse. That definitely sucks to accept. But, I also know we have banned some real racist assholes, people who were here to smear others from a position of relative anonymity, people here to try and con the membership, people here solely to disrupt, etcetera. I like to think we have been right more than we have been wrong.

I don't always get it right. I try to improve though.

The ask a recruiter section was a great idea and came about long after it really should have, IMO. It has its issues, but for the most part we have folks not on the moderating staff taking care of that, which suits me just fine.

Bang, I am definitely interested din your ideas and can only hope Mike will find some time to take a look at this when he's not swamped by work, other work, family, etc. I think anything that can help the site is worth looking into - the long history of the search function points to a resolution, of some sort, being a requirement. Not simply linking someone, quite tongue in cheek I might add, to Let Me Google That For You. It can work for some, but not for others.

Lastly, I am still trying to improve. I am happy with the very mostly positive interactions I have with people here over the last couple of years, even when we are disagreeing.

 

[Lumber]

I totally agree with the OP. This is not a welcoming environment. I joined about 7 years ago and learned my lesson very quickly not to post here unless I really needed to. I kept my activity to a minimum. Sometimes it is a good source of information but mostly I hear admins, moderators or other old users giving crap to people. If you are going to take time to respond, either respond with some information or do not respond. Do not waste your time and add a reply that does not contribute anything.

My response to OP was meant to be humourous, and you know what? Apparently it was; lots of people lol'd, but you chose to "downvote" it. And while I didn't directly address OP's issue, I didn't berate or belittle him (assuming you accept the humour of my post). If that's not a positive contribution, I don't know what is.

 

[dapaterson]

My response to OP was meant to be humourous, and you know what? Apparently it was; lots of people lol'd, but you just to "downvote" it. And while I didn't directly address OP's issue, I didn't berate or belittle him (assuming you accept the humour of my post). If that's not a positive contribution, I don't know what is.

Clearly, you forgot to add an emoticon.

 

[George Wallace]

My response to OP was meant to be humourous, and you know what? Apparently it was; lots of people lol'd, but you just to "downvote" it. And while I didn't directly address OP's issue, I didn't berate or belittle him (assuming you accept the humour of my post). If that's not a positive contribution, I don't know what is.

One of the common occurrences here; the poster's humour is not always translated/interpreted as such by someone.......and we spiral from there.