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No Media at Repatriation of Fallen

I have sent the following e-mail to the Prime Minister with info copies to the leaders of the opposition.
Sir:
My family and I fully support your decision regarding the return to
traditional half masting of flags on the death of Canadian soldiers and of
the decision to bar media from the repatriation at Trenton.  That the media
and opposition parties should turn this into a political frenzy is abhorent.
I have today sent the following letter to 21 major newspapers across the
country.
Sincerely,
John H. Neilson, CD
Canadian Army RC Sigs (Ret'd)


I am writing to express my deep disgust with the politicizing of the deaths
of our fallen soldiers by the media and by the opposition parties.  This is
both unseemly and disrespectful.  Where were the cries of "respect our
troops" prior to 2002?  Their bodies were repatriated without fanfare or
lowering of the Peace Tower flag.  In fact most Canadians didn't even know
they had died in the service of their country, 26 in the Balkans alone
during the 1990s and over 150 in various "peacekeeping" missions.  The
Canadian public was shielded from these facts, ignored the Forces and
demonstrated an unwillingness to support them.  The flag on the Peace Tower
was not lowered for these deaths nor for those which occurred during World
Wars I and II and Korea.  This is not a sign of disrespect.  There is a
formal protocol for half masting flags which is being strictly followed.
The Liberal government's haphazard policy of lowering the Peace Tower flag
for selected soldiers does not reflect the well-established rules for half
masting of flags and was not a "tradition" but a temporary bump in the well
established traditions of the country and the Forces. The Peace Tower flag
represents our country more than any other flag.  In my opinion it should be
lowered only on the death of our Queen, Governor General, Prime Minister and
on Remembrance Day. In respect of media coverage on the repatriation of our
dead at Trenton, I agree with the decision taken.  The media report our
casualties and film the departure from Kandahar.  There is no need for us to
also intrude on the families mourning and privacy, which is then rebroadcast
over and over again.  The government is not hiding the fact that these
deaths occurred or the manner in which they took place.  Despite the
outraged response of the media I do not believe this is an infringement of
freedom of the press but simple respect for the families involved.  The
feeding frenzy that both of these events has generated represents the
ultimate in disrespect for our serving men and women and I find it
disgusting that they should be used to score political points or
journalistic sensationalism.  Support our troops, respect our troops, honour
our troops, love our troops but do not misuse or trivialize their feelings
or traditions.


 
Jack Neilson said:
I have sent the following e-mail to the Prime Minister with info copies to the leaders of the opposition.
Sir:
My family and I fully support your decision regarding the return to
traditional half masting of flags on the death of Canadian soldiers and of
the decision to bar media from the repatriation at Trenton.  That the media
and opposition parties should turn this into a political frenzy is abhorent.
I have today sent the following letter to 21 major newspapers across the
country.
Sincerely,
John H. Neilson, CD
Canadian Army RC Sigs (Ret'd)


I am writing to express my deep disgust with the politicizing of the deaths
of our fallen soldiers by the media and by the opposition parties.  This is
both unseemly and disrespectful.  Where were the cries of "respect our
troops" prior to 2002?   Their bodies were repatriated without fanfare or
lowering of the Peace Tower flag.  In fact most Canadians didn't even know
they had died in the service of their country, 26 in the Balkans alone
during the 1990s and over 150 in various "peacekeeping" missions.  The
Canadian public was shielded from these facts, ignored the Forces and
demonstrated an unwillingness to support them.  The flag on the Peace Tower
was not lowered for these deaths nor for those which occurred during World
Wars I and II and Korea.  This is not a sign of disrespect.  There is a
formal protocol for half masting flags which is being strictly followed.
The Liberal government's haphazard policy of lowering the Peace Tower flag
for selected soldiers does not reflect the well-established rules for half
masting of flags and was not a "tradition" but a temporary bump in the well
established traditions of the country and the Forces. The Peace Tower flag
represents our country more than any other flag.  In my opinion it should be
lowered only on the death of our Queen, Governor General, Prime Minister and
on Remembrance Day. In respect of media coverage on the repatriation of our
dead at Trenton, I agree with the decision taken.  The media report our
casualties and film the departure from Kandahar.  There is no need for us to
also intrude on the families mourning and privacy, which is then rebroadcast
over and over again.   The government is not hiding the fact that these
deaths occurred or the manner in which they took place.  Despite the
outraged response of the media I do not believe this is an infringement of
freedom of the press but simple respect for the families involved.  The
feeding frenzy that both of these events has generated represents the
ultimate in disrespect for our serving men and women and I find it
disgusting that they should be used to score political points or
journalistic sensationalism.  Support our troops, respect our troops, honour
our troops, love our troops but do not misuse or trivialize their feelings
or traditions.

We should all send letters - can you list the 21 email addresses so we can all use them?
Mike
 
Like I said, delegating some limited filming of the Arrivals to Army news & their film crews, it would be possible to give a limited but respectful "public access" to the general population via CPAC (I'm certain we can spare ourselves some of the nauseating debates in the house).

The press has been given full access to the ramp ceremonies back in theatre - That should be more than enough

IMHO
 
fongs said:
First - It's a figment of speach "A Pine Box" I know the caskets are metal.

Sigh.  You mean a figure of speech.

Second - What can be more important than representing the whole Country as our leader, and being there when the %$% plane arrives....

Do you even know what  a Prime Ministeris or what he does? Seriously, type out the Prime Minister's schedule for the next week if you're so all-fire sure that he has nothing better to do. I'd love to see that information. Otherwise, maybe you should stop typing now.

OH, I forgot that wouldn't look all that %$% great, a photo of himself beside a casket.
I suppose it's damed if you do, or damed if you don't.

Yes, and due to visceral, overemotional persons like yourself typing uninformed rants instead of using a little common sense.  Rave on.

I'm not a Liberal, Conservative or NDP supporter........I'm a CANADIAN and that flag on parliment hill doesn't belong to the politicians inside that building, it belongs to every person in this Country. If someone wants to fly it at half #$%$ mass because they want to show some repect to a fallen soldier, cop, firefighter that gave his life for this country, I see no reason or right you have to stop him.

It's called protocol, Beavis.

 
geo said:
Like I said, delegating some limited filming of the Arrivals to Army news & their film crews, it would be possible to give a limited but respectful "public access" to the general population via CPAC (I'm certain we can spare ourselves some of the nauseating debates in the house).

The press has been given full access to the ramp ceremonies back in theatre - That should be more than enough

IMHO
geo, good idea.
AFAIK, having worked with them before, Army News equipment has the ability to hook into a SAT Truck. Thus the media would be able to use the feed from the Army News team on the ground, instead of having five or six different networks there, the Army could feed the signal to them all.
If you don't mind, I'd like to staff this idea up the Army News CoC. I think this might be a viable option...
 
Mike,
Here is the URL for the Canadian newspapers.  Some provide an e-mail address, others require one to go through a form on their web page.  Had a phone call from the National Post this afternoon to say they are running my letter tomorrow.
http://www.newsdirectory.com/news.php?c=na&co=Canada
Political e-mail addressess are:
Stephen Harper pm@pm.gc.ca
Bill Graham granab0@parl.gc.ca
Jack Layton jack@fed.ndp.ca
regards
Jack
 
Michael thanks for the grammar correction. I see you are much more proficient in the English language than I.

Kudos to you !

I do know what a Prime Minister is, and even who he is......thanks for your concern in the matter. Yes, your right he is a very busy man and his schedule must be very hard to change.......Trenton is so far away from Ottawa, he might even have to fly there. Not that he has a plane on call, fueled, staffed and ready at a moments notice. I suppose all that is just there for looks? I really do think he can find some time.....If not himself than perhaps the Deputy Prime Minister, CDS, or Defence Minister.

Sorry, I offended you. I don't think that I attacked you in any way directly, Did I ?


 
Kirkhill said:
fongs:

For the military a flag is a rallying point. Traditionally it is where a soldier looked to find order, authority and family on crowded, noisy battlefields filled with dead and dying.  The flag was not dipped while the enemy was engaged.  Dipping the flag would be taken as a sign of defeat or surrender by both friend and foe.

Flags may be dipped in secure environments to honour individuals and I am all for that.  I will also grant that the Peace Tower is a secure environment.  However in the battle of symbols I will argue that on the Peace Tower, as long as our troops are engaged,  that flag must remain undipped.  At full-staff it offers comfort to the troops.  In any other condition it offers comfort to the enemy.

Cheers.
I thank you for this,kirkhill,of all the posts,this one brings a tear to my eye,it is not the fault of the younger,they know not how it feels to be lying next to death on the field and see even the smallest glimmer of canada,even an arm patch,can bring you back from deaths doorstep.It means friend,brother,family,I thank you again
                                                  parkie
                                                                           
 
fongs,

Are you in the military?

I have been for nearly 22 years.  In that time, I have buried several of my colleagues who have died in aircraft accidents and one who died of cancer while serving.  Should the PM of the day have dropped everything and come to those funerals?  While I am absolutely not in any way minimizing the pain felt by the family and friends of the four most recently killed in Afghanistan, what is beginning to upset me personally (and I speak only for myself) is the calculus that some (with an agenda, perhaps) are using which makes some deaths worth more than others.

Suppose the next death of a CF member is a pilot who failed to eject from his aircraft- but it was a training flight.  Is he/she worthy of having the PM fly to meet the family?  What if the next casualty from Afghanistan is someone who had a heart attack while doing PT in Kandahar?  PM to Trenton again? 

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but, about 50-70 people (any medic in the crowd with better info than that, feel free to correct me)in the CF die every year, from various reasons ranging from car accidents to heart attacks to cancer to death in combat.  PM to meet the coffin in Trenton for each of them?  Or only those who died overseas?  How about just those killed in combat?  Who decides? Are you beginning to see just how ridiculous this gets?

For my part, if I were to die overseas, I would not want my wife to have to face a ramp full of cameras, media and a Prime Minister in Trenton.  I would not want the flag on Parliament Hill lowere for me, either.  I would be no more deserving of it than those who died in WW1, WW2, or Korea or on Peace-keeping missions.

fong, you are certainly welcome to your opinion, but I believe that you are barking up the wrong tree here.  Please try to remember that many of those who are screaming the loudest about this are nowhere to be found when it comes to supporting the military when we really need the support- budget day (Jack Layton and most of the Liberal Party of Canada, are you paying attention?).  Your crocodile tears and faux anger do not impress me much.  Why don't you read and learn here for a while before you post again?
 
John Tescione said:
Here is a challenge, November eleventh is not a Holiday here in Ontario.  How about all people dedicate one day of their Holiday allotted time from work and visit a parade or commemoration.  Drop by a legion or an Armouries.  Instead of whining about what the government should do, or offer you to remember, I Challenge you to show it by sacrificing one day for your time...

That is the John Tescione "tess rememberance challenge"  of 2006.

Give up a day to remember.

dileas

tess

See you all there this November eleventh.

Excellent post Tess and I will see you there. I never miss it.

Saying that, I will offer up to the media once again to do something constructive regarding the flag issue and start writing Editorials constructive to the "Flag Flap" and Remembrance of ALL our fallen soldiers.

As I posted earlier in this thread why don't you address the issue of a NATIONAL Remembrance Day Holiday, because as Tess points out apparently some (not just in Ontario) have more important things to do on Nov 11th than honouring their Fallen:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42550/post-371457.html#msg371457


 
If everyone that is a member of this forum sent a letter to the Pm's office stating that the people of Canada think that November 11 should be a national holiday that would be approximately 10,000 letters. I would be thinking that might get someones attention.
 
Please try to remember that many of those who are screaming the loudest about this are nowhere to be found when it comes to supporting the military when we really need the support- budget day

I was too hasty.  Our most important day is Rememberance Day (thank-you Armyvern and Tess).  I hope to see every single one of those who is loudly frothing about media access to ramp ceremonies and flags on Parliament Hill to make sure you don't forget by the time Nov 11 rolls around!  Find a cenotaph and be there- hat off.
 
fongs said:
Michael thanks for the grammar correction. I see you are much more proficient in the English language than I.

Kudos to you !

I do know what a Prime Minister is, and even who he is......thanks for your concern in the matter. Yes, your right he is a very busy man and his schedule must be very hard to change.......Trenton is so far away from Ottawa, he might even have to fly there. Not that he has a plane on call, fueled, staffed and ready at a moments notice. I suppose all that is just there for looks? I really do think he can find some time.....If not himself than perhaps the Deputy Prime Minister, CDS, or Defence Minister.

Sorry, I offended you. I don't think that I attacked you in any way directly, Did I ?

No offence was taken.  As for your question - yes you did attack me.  Your poor spelling is an assault on my sensibilities, your poor grammar is the second jaw in the pincer movement slamming shut on my sanity; your heart-on-your-sleeve bleeding heart visceral reaction to this issue heedless of what professional soldiers keep posting here destroys my faith in mankind - in short, you have massed forces on the border of my entire perception of all that is decent and sensible in the world. You've drained my energies and depleted my reserves. My withdrawal from this thread will play DYNAMO to SeaKingTacco's HUSKY-like thrust into your soft underbelly.
 
Michael Dorosh said:
No offence was taken.  As for your question - yes you did attack me.  Your poor spelling is an assault on my sensibilities, your poor grammar is the second jaw in the pincer movement slamming shut on my sanity; your heart-on-your-sleeve bleeding heart visceral reaction to this issue heedless of what professional soldiers keep posting here destroys my faith in mankind - in short, you have massed forces on the border of my entire perception of all that is decent and sensible in the world. You've drained my energies and depleted my reserves. My withdrawal from this thread will play DYNAMO to SeaKingTacco's HUSKY-like thrust into your soft underbelly.

Yes, nicely done.
Sure put me in my place.
I suppose you parade Tuesday nights at Mewata.
Perhaps we can discuss this then......Beavis !
 
I just wanted to commend this foum for the excellent, informative threads concerning the repatriation and flag half-masting issues.  I found the forum after Googling for information on the half-masting protocols.  It is encouraging that at least one media outlet is referring to the sentiments here, and I personally find the forum consensus to be refreshing in light of the uninformed opinions I have had the misfortune of being exposed to professionally and, of course, in much of the media. 

The thoughtful and well-expressed perspectives here reflect considerable credit on both the military and the country. 

I hope that some media outlets investigate the ugly harrassment of Mrs. Costall attributed here to the Canadian Press.

Well done; keep it up.
 
Gents...keep the thread on topic.

Regards







FONGS.....PM INBOUND
 
ArmyVern said:
As I posted earlier in this thread why don't you address the issue of a NATIONAL Remembrance Day Holiday, because as Tess points out apparently some (not just in Ontario) have more important things to do on Nov 11th than honouring their Fallen:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42550/post-371457.html#msg371457

After asking Tess for permission to plagiarize his earlier post challenging the powers that be, I posted an e-mail to my Member of Parliament, a Conservative, asking him to encourage his government to do just that. (Thanks, Tess :salute:)

If we can stand down business, education and commerce for Christmas and New Years Days, why can we not legislate a similar "celebration" of remembrance on Nov 11?  I remember when I was a kid, that Remembrance Day WAS a full stat holiday.  But back them we had a parliament with the backbone to properly support and honour it's Armed Forces, not simply use them as a show piece for political points.
 
I was talking to my Mom tonight (really, this is still on topic) about this. She works in the Town Hall down home, so she is in contact with a lot of people every day. She was interested in knowing what I thought about this issue (and the flag). We just happen to agree on these issues. As do most of us here.
She was getting a lot of questions from townspeople on what she thought, seeing as how many know I am in the Army and have been across the water a couple times (hey, that's kinda big in my home town  :)) My Mom, being the smart cookie that she is, thinks it is just plain, old fashioned rude and ignorant of the press to be crying about this. She also commented on how most people are disagreeing with the new directives simply because they don't like PM Harper or his political views. I have to agree on that and I think that is what really burns most of us here, when you really get down to it. All this flap and screaming has nothing to do with us. It is all about who you support politically. If I thought for one moment that any of these people (especially the press) were concerned for myself or my family, I would have an easier time with it. The actions of the press after Rob's death, and the photos published today, show that the press cares nothing for us. It's all about the money shot (Hello Toronto Star  :skull:)
Having gone through the loss of a parent at a very young age, I can not but help put myself in the shoes of the families involved. I know what it is like to be told that your Dad is never coming home again. There is no way that I want the faces of my wife and children (or my Mom) on national tv or the front page if I ever come home in a flag draped coffin. I would not wish that on anyone. The repatriation of fallen soldiers should be private. I did not join so the entire country could know of my life and death. I joined to serve.

I think a national campaign for a stat holiday for Nov 11 is an excellent idea. My emails will be off tonight. hmmmm, the Speaker of the House is my MP....interesting. Wonder how many votes we hold in this riding?
 
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