New flying suits & jackets going on trial

[Strike]

It that even physically possible on any airframe we have?

Tutor...Handles on the side of the seat.  And before we all go on about how they were retired years ago and only the Snowbirds were flying, keep in mind we were just getting the "interim" flight suit then.

Bunny pants + ejection seat a/c = crammed in the seat.

Ohhh, that's just too easy.  Really, as a future pilot, you shouldn't set yourself up so easily.  ;D

And when was the last time you did a walkaround at -22 (or -30 for that matter)?

Me?  All the way through my training, never in Halifax (but we all know a dry cold is not as bad as a damp cold...), and for 3 years in Petawawa.  In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone out west was pulling that off last week.

 

[George Wallace]

This is going nowhere: it's not a safety concern, but a pen pocket that, if one uses it, renders the pen useless IS worse than useless, in my book.  That's all.

Out.

If I am reading that correctly, you have a lot of ink stains in your uniforms.  That is the only way I can figure your statement that the pockets render pens useless.........ie. broken.

 

[aesop081]

but a pen pocket that, if one uses it, renders the pen useless IS worse than useless, in my book.  That's all.

Works just fine for me, like i said. Others here don't mind it either. This is going nowhere because others dont share you displeasure with it. On my aircraft, in my job, the placement is perfect.

 

[GAP]

Me?  All the way through my training, never in Halifax (but we all know a dry cold is not as bad as a damp cold...), and for 3 years in Petawawa.  In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone out west was pulling that off last week.

And the week before, and the week before, and the week before, except wednesday, but we got double on thursday.....uh....this guy does realize that -22 is only a piddling -8 F huh?

 

[SupersonicMax]

Works just fine for me, like i said. Others here don't mind it either. This is going nowhere because others dont share you displeasure with it. On my aircraft, in my job, the placement is perfect.

In your job, you sit in the back of an aircraft, with plenty of room to have pens wherever you possible want, any chart or paper you want and even probably a table to write on.  On ejection seat aircrafts, you don't have all that confort.  With the bunny pants, the LPSV, the harness, the winter jacket, even for a small guy like me, there isn't much room to move around.  Reaching for a pen down is actually, hard!!  Flight suits have to accomodate every community, every jobs.  We can't possibly have different flight suits for every trade/airframe.  Having a pen on the arms would make my life a little easier.

Max

 

[Strike]

Max, I'm sure it would.  But if I can reach my pens while flying an aircraft that requires me to keep my feet on the pedals 100% of the time, I think you can shift a little to get to the ones on your leg.  (Yes, a little helo vs jet dig there.)  Trust me.  Reaching across your chest while wearing bunny pants, an LPSV, and a harness, is no easy feat either.  One of my jackets in MJ had those pockets.  I know I may be a little larger in the chest than you  ;D but I'm not THAT big.  And back then I was pretty darn scrawny.

 

[SupersonicMax]

Max, I'm sure it would.  But if I can reach my pens while flying an aircraft that requires me to keep my feet on the pedals 100% of the time, I think you can shift a little to get to the ones on your leg.  (Yes, a little helo vs jet dig there.)  Trust me.  Reaching across your chest while wearing bunny pants, an LPSV, and a harness, is no easy feat either.  One of my jackets in MJ had those pockets.  I know I may be a little larger in the chest than you  ;D but I'm not THAT big.  And back then I was pretty darn scrawny.

How do you spell that, ruder?  What is it? 

You have a good point there Strike, but it might be because I'm small, I can reach my arm okay.  But I can imagine it can be harder for bigger people.

Max

 

[Strike]

Yes...that's exactly what it is.  And the two columns that I use to control the aircraft are a stick and throttle too. :

Oh, and it's R-U-D-D-E-R.


Anyway, as long as they keep both sets I'll be happy.  Never fails.  If you put your pens on your arms, you'll forget to take them out when you put your jacket on.  And if you put them on your shins, you'll forget about them when you put your bunny pants on.  At least there are zippers on the legs.  Either that, or we're all going to have to have 64 pens/pencils/omnichroms to fill all of our pockets.  Which means more for others to steal from us.

 

[Infanteer]

I'd love to see guys in Phase Training at the Infantry School telling OC's how things work.... ^-^

 

[I_am_John_Galt]

Because I apparently did not make myself clear enough:

Tutor...Handles on the side of the seat.  And before we all go on about how they were retired years ago and only the Snowbirds were flying, keep in mind we were just getting the "interim" flight suit then.

I know that Tutors have ejection seat handles on the side: I was asking how a pen pocket on a pilot's sleeve could rip their arm off in an ejection (as in how could they get low enough in the seat for it to get caught on the lip of the cockpit).

Me?  All the way through my training, never in Halifax (but we all know a dry cold is not as bad as a damp cold...), and for 3 years in Petawawa.  In fact, I'm pretty sure everyone out west was pulling that off last week.

No, not you (and others): I was replying to CDN Aviator's comment about how he had never had a problem with them.  I HAVE had problems with them, and we do different jobs.

Works just fine for me, like i said. Others here don't mind it either. This is going nowhere because others dont share you displeasure with it. On my aircraft, in my job, the placement is perfect.

Great, I'm happy for you: I am well aware of other pilots (perhaps not on Army.ca) that find the placement a PITA.

If I am reading that correctly, you have a lot of ink stains in your uniforms.  That is the only way I can figure your statement that the pockets render pens useless.........ie. broken.

Then you are not reading correctly; useless as in the cold coagulates (or whatever the term is) the ink so that they don't write.

And the week before, and the week before, and the week before, except wednesday, but we got double on thursday.....uh....this guy does realize that -22 is only a piddling -8 F huh?

That's my point: I'm not complaining about the cold (WTF?), I'm complaining about the fact that if I use my pen pockets, my pens will freeze in these temperatures.  And on top of that the placement is an ergonomic PITA: I can't figure out why they would do it ... but it's not that big of a deal.

So far there's been exactly two arguments about why they are better on the arms, neither of which is terribly convincing (1, because of some undisclosed environments where it is 'better', and 2, because of a safety issue that AFAIK no longer exists; pretty much every other air force in the world doesn't seem to share these concerns), and a whole bunch of 'well I don't have a problem with it' comments. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

I'd love to see guys in Phase Training at the Infantry School telling Major's how things work.... ^-^

You know Infanteer, the day you think you know everything about your job and you can't learn from people subordinate to you, it's time to retire.  

I just came back from a cross-country and I think my instructor learned just as much as I did, sometimes with my help (he's Australian, not really used to Canadian procedures).  There is nothing wrong with that.  We sat down, he explained stuff, I explained stuff and it just made us better pilots in the end.

Having said that, giving an opinion on something is not telling someone how it's done.  It telling someone how he feels about something.

Max

 

[aesop081]

I was replying to CDN Aviator's comment about how he had never had a problem with them.  ............ and we do different jobs.

You asked me when the last time was that i did a walkaround at -22 or less. A walk around for me was no different that it is for you. I was frozen and wearing everything i owned. I still had to go over the entire aircraft exterior and interior. I could not see what it had to do with pen pockets and it certainly didnt have anything to do with different jobs.

 

[George Wallace]

If I am reading that correctly, you have a lot of ink stains in your uniforms.  That is the only way I can figure your statement that the pockets render pens useless.........ie. broken.

Then you are not reading correctly; useless as in the cold coagulates (or whatever the term is) the ink so that they don't write.

And the week before, and the week before, and the week before, except wednesday, but we got double on thursday.....uh....this guy does realize that -22 is only a piddling -8 F huh?

That's my point: I'm not complaining about the cold (WTF?), I'm complaining about the fact that if I use my pen pockets, my pens will freeze in these temperatures.  And on top of that the placement is an ergonomic PITA: I can't figure out why they would do it ... but it's not that big of a deal.

So far there's been exactly two arguments about why they are better on the arms, neither of which is terribly convincing (1, because of some undisclosed environments where it is 'better', and 2, because of a safety issue that AFAIK no longer exists; pretty much every other air force in the world doesn't seem to share these concerns), and a whole bunch of 'well I don't have a problem with it' comments. 

OK.  So now I read you clearly.  You don't need pockets for pens, because they freeze on you in cold weather. 

And don't say you aren't talking about the cold, because obviously your are.

 

[Sub_Guy]

Way to go DuffMan!  See what you started, an entire thread on the placement of the pen holders.

I like the current placement for the pens, I haven't encountered a pen not working after a walk around on the CT-142, but that's probably because I use pencils 
(a lot of them too, stupid logs)

-22 for a check ride in Feb 05, that's shorts weather bro!

 

[aesop081]

-22 for a check ride in Feb 05, that's shorts weather bro!

I said it was COLDER than that

 

[SupersonicMax]

Way to go DuffMan!  See what you started, an entire thread on the placement of the pen holders.

I like the current placement for the pens, I haven't encountered a pen not working after a walk around on the CT-142, but that's probably because I use pencils 
(a lot of them too, stupid logs)

-22 for a check ride in Feb 05, that's shorts weather bro!

Unfortunately, at 2 CFFTS, we have to use the approved yellow pens in our cockpits.  FOD issues...

Max

 

[Zoomie]

<snip> but that's probably because I use pencils  <snip>

BINGO - if you are of our F.A.G. brethren and your pens are freezing up - use a pencil.

Just so that we can all sleep tonight - the new designed flying suits have pen pockets on the legs (where they currently are) and on the arm pockets.

In the Operational community the placement of our pen pockets is not nearly as paramount as flying the plane effectively and safely.  We are all consummate professionals that adapt to our changing environment and manage with what we have got.  Grabbing a pen and replacing it is an instinctive reaction that requires zero thought process - I can't recall too much of MJ, but I don't remember a huge hassle with sub-zero walk-arounds and frozen pens.

 

[Strike]

All this and we STILL haven't talked about the rank placement...

 

[Sub_Guy]

IF anyone is concerned about pens freezing, check this out!

http://thewritersedge.com/story.main.cfm

"it is the only type of pen that will write satisfactorily in freezing cold (-50 degrees F) and extreme heat (+400 degrees F) and in the gravity-free vacuum of Space"


So without a doubt it will work in MJ!

You can thank me later.

 

[Strike]

So without a doubt it will work in MJ!

But what about everywhere else? ;D