New Canadian artillery purchase?

[Gun Shy]

As for the LAV III concept with an unmanned remote turret, great on manpower, what about concepts like missfires, hard extractions etc. On the MGS (tank like) someone has to get on top of the vehicle to manually clear the loader.

 

[Gunnerlove]

If we go the a MGS like the MOBAT I wonder if it will force a major change in doctrine such as creating a Gun Cell which could contain the MGS, an ammo limber, and a LAV with a section for security.

I think the next few years could be very interesting, or nothing will change.

 

[Kirkhill]

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1563

Article on the US Army's arty thinking on procurements.

Interesting to note that while there is no current requirement for an SP 105 they are giving a number of concepts a hard look.

 

[RCA]

As everyone knows, you fire 32 rds, you've got to load 32 rds. And with a 3 man Detachment, that would mean Driver, Det Comd, and oh yes...Loader. Hope he's a big bugger. Though I image it must be accompanied by an ammo limber.

As well 32 rds is only approx 4-6 minutes of fire. Then how long to re-load?

My guess is unless a fire plan is coming up, the 32 rd is broken into a pre-load mix. As BC/OPs sometimes can't get the C of A right, I can imagine the unloading and re-loading of different types of rds along with the pre-requiste amount of cursing.

A good det (for a 105 anyway) can sustain 3-4 rds a minute for a substantial amount of time. And that is all that is required required for indirect fire. And this would apply to towed or SP. The only trade off I see is the size of the Det. And in sustained Ops, the nod would go to the larger detachment.

Interesting that we are moving back to the 105. Not long ago, there was talk of moving away from the 105 because the rd wasn't large enough to carry all the "bells and whistles".

 

[Firepower]

Isn't it auto-loading?


Resupply maybe a different story, someone might have to fill the racks manually, but I was under the impression it auto loaded through some mechanism.

The projectiles are loaded automatically from an internal 32-round magazine, reducing the crew size to no more than three members, he said.

 

[RCA]

That right, it'll auto-load the 32 rds and fire them... then what  

(my first sentence should say re-load vice load).

 

[Kirkhill]

Interesting that we are moving back to the 105. Not long ago, there was talk of moving away from the 105 because the rd wasn't large enough to carry all the "bells and whistles".

I think it is in line with all the other miniaturization that is going on in the modern world and the ability to increase "precision kills".  They are looking at Small Diameter Bombs of 250 lbs to replace larger bombs through accuracy, 70mm Guided Rockets to supplement Hellfire and Guided MRLS rounds.  All designed to do more with fewer smaller rounds.  Fewer trucks and ammo numbers.

Wonder if the autoloader accepts pre-loaded magazines?

 

[Firepower]

Ah, makes more sense now

What about using the same system as the Crusader was going to. A seperate vehicle with nothing but ammo. An a system that can connect the two together for reload. I have no idea how well it worked on the trials.

The plus side would be rearming in an NBC enviroment would be easier.

Some info on Crusader, an the ammo loader. http://www.army-technology.com/projects/crusader/

The XM2002 ammunition re-supply vehicle, equipped with a fully automated ammunition handling system automatically transfers 48 rounds of ammunition and fuel to the howitzer in less than 12 minutes.

 

[RCA]

Pre-loaded magazine...hum 32 rds x 36 lbs = !!!!!   That loader better be a real big bugger  ;D

I firmly believe in a manual loading system You'll get the same rate of fire, with a much greater flexability. Have the platform mobile (SP) with GPS , self orientation, data link and auto fuse setter. All you require to add to the 3 man det is a 2 man ammo limber and voila! you have a self contained fire unit.

 

[Firepower]

I'm with you, on that!

 

[Kirkhill]

Looks like a 32km 105mm could be a step closer for Canada if it wants it.

This is a development contract that is being directed by the US to South Africa (Denel) to produce NATO compatible advanced 105mm munitions.  These are the same munitions that an American Arty officer said a couple of months ago that the US had no "current" plans to aquire.

That Denel/GDLS LAV-105 looks a little more practicable now.  Or at least Mobat with a 32 km modified C3?

GD Awarded $5.1M Artillery Ammunition Contract
 
 
(Source: General Dynamics; issued Aug. 9, 2004)
 
 
ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. --- General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems, a business unit of General Dynamics, announced today that the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command at Picatinny Arsenal, N.J., has awarded a $5.1 million modification to a firm-fixed-price contract to manufacture 105mm and 155mm artillery projectiles. 

General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems will supply projectiles for the Army's Advanced Conventional Artillery Ammunition Program (ACA2P). This contract will supply long-range 105/155mm insensitive high explosive, smoke and illumination projectiles. The artillery projectiles are a South African Denel design and are currently undergoing safety assessments at Yuma Proving Ground (Yuma, Ariz.). Work will be performed in the Republic of South Africa (75 percent) and St. Petersburg, Fla. (25 percent), and is expected to be completed by Aug. 1, 2005; quantities in this contract will be for safety and gun qualification testing in 2005. 

The NATO compatible projectiles deliver enhanced battlefield effects beyond 30 km in a standard 39-caliber 155mm gun, thus exceeding current stockpile capabilities. Current U.S. Marine and Army towed and self-propelled howitzer systems and the Future Non-Line-of-Sight - Cannon will use the ammunition. 

General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems manufactures payload delivery systems, propellant, large- and medium-caliber ammunition, warheads, control systems, and ordnance/missile components. 

General Dynamics, headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, employs approximately 69,400 people worldwide and anticipates 2004 revenue of $19 billion. The company is a market leader in mission-critical information systems and technologies; land and expeditionary combat systems, armaments and munitions; shipbuilding and marine systems; and business aviation.