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Never mind Ignatieff - what about Brian Tobin

PPCLI Guy

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Brian Tobin, currently working for Belinda's Dad, has managed to avoid most of the taint of the last few years, albeit solely by virtue of havving retired again.  I would be shocked if there weren't some in the party that are working on / hoping for his return

Dave
 
Personally, I'd be shocked if he wasn't thinking of being PM himself. Perhaps with Belinda in the Lib cabinet, he could use that as an entry point.
 
Brian doesn't need an entry point, he was once possibly the most popular liberal in eastern Canada (excluding Quebec of course) I think the only Mr Tobin comes out to fight again is if he is guaranteed the PM's job. Otherwise I think he is enjoying his semi private life.
 
But we have the Martin Cauchon team arguing that Liberal tradition says the next leader must be a Francophone.

There are only a couple of credible Francophones, if you agree with me that Pierre Pettigrew is too light weight for any senior appointment, including the one he holds, and that Debnis Coderre is Pettigrew minus the hair.  I don't know who the other in that 'couple' might be.
 
Edward Campbell said:
But we have the Martin Cauchon team arguing that Liberal tradition says the next leader must be a Francophone.

There are only a couple of credible Francophones, if you agree with me that Pierre Pettigrew is too light weight for any senior appointment, including the one he holds, and that Debnis Coderre is Pettigrew minus the hair.   I don't know who the other in that 'couple' might be.

Ok - I admit it - you have stumped me.  Can't think of a single credible Francophone - and that includes Charest.

My money is on Brian Tobin.
 
This from Jane Taber's 'Ottawa Notebook' in Today's Globe and Mail:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20050716/NOTEBOOK16/TPComment/?query=Ottawa+Notebook
Campaigning:
Liberal leadership hopeful and former Chrétien justice minister, Martin Cauchon, is in Winnipeg on business as are about 100 young Liberals. Mr. Cauchon happened to run into them yesterday (coincidence?) and was invited to their lunch today. Mr. Cauchon is apparently liked by the youth for his stand on decriminalization of marijuana and support for same-sex marriage.

Is Martin's blood in the water, are the shark's circling?

---------
PS (to stay on topic): Taber reports that Brian Tobin was in St. John's (along with Danny Williams, Clyde Wells and John Crosbie) at the funeral of Frank Moores.

 
I'd like to see Frank McKenna square off against the Tories headed by Bernard Lord- two (former) premiers of NB- it would be a no-lose situation. Also NB is the only official bi-lingual province within Confederation.
 
I'd like to become a US citizen and move south - but its not happening and neither is your scenario - plus I cant see anyone from out West voting for anyone East of Manitoba...
 
There is little or no speculation in Liberal Party circles about former MP and Premier Brian Tobin
but he could be a formidable contender. Tobin had Conservative mentors in Newfoundland in
the support of John Crosbie and Craig Dobbin - he sought a Federal seat beyond his home town
Stephenville, based on their advice, at the same time, getting the full support of the Newfoundland
Liberal Party - Brian Tobin in my opinion was the smartest and most politically astute Minister in
the Chretien government, but for some undisclosed reason, he had a parting of the ways with
Chretien, (ironically just when Chretien needed him in his battle with Martin). If Tobin decides to
run he certainly could win - favorites for Liberal leadership at the moment are Ignatieff, Rock
and Brison (a new face in the leadership race which is on, but no one will admit it in public).
MacLeod
 
To discuss anything about the Liberal Government to me is like slipping into a septic tank. Afterwards I desperately have the need to have a shower. As a Newfoundlander (from the West Coast) I am keenly aware of Mr. Tobin and his fantastic ability to double speak. He is a lot like Smallwood- as gifted in rhetoric and as educated. He is nothing more than a talking hair cut. If he is what passes for leadership in this country now, we are in dire straights.

jmacleod, you and I do not share the same view. Perhaps because I know the man, and you only know of him.

Brian Tobin in my opinion was the smartest and most politically astute Minister in
the Chretien government, but for some undisclosed reason, he had a parting of the ways with
Chretien, (ironically just when Chretien needed him in his battle with Martin). If Tobin decides to
run he certainly could win
- favorites for Liberal leadership at the moment are Ignatieff, Rock
and Brison (a new face in the leadership race which is on, but no one will admit it in public).

I had to read the bolded line a few times. I am privately hoping that you are being sarcastic, and it is too early in the morning for me to pick up on your subtle humour. But the realist in me is saying that you do truly believe this. If this is the case me son, fill your boots.

On a side note, I wonder what does it take for someone like you to leave the party you support. What would it take for you to not suppot them?
Would they have to go to terrorist fundraisers?
Would they have to embezzle hundreds of millions of dollars?
Would they have to cut and slash the military or health care?
Would they have to alienate us from our historic allies?
Would they have to use bribery or coercion?
Would they have to mismanage billions of dollars of taxpayer's money?
Oh right they already have done that.

If you are left leaning, why not vote NDP? At least then you could stand on principle.
 
Bograt said:
If you are left leaning, why not vote NDP? At least then you could stand on principle.

Uh-huh.... just like Jack Layton stood on principle when he had the NDP prop-up Martin's government last spring in return for $4.6 billion in socialist goodies written into the budget.  Is there still such a thing as principle on the political left?  In terms of ideology, I mean, not in terms of individual policitians, some of whom one can even respect.
 
Horse_Soldier said:
Uh-huh.... just like Jack Layton stood on principle when he had the NDP prop-up Martin's government last spring in return for $4.6 billion in socialist goodies written into the budget.   Is there still such a thing as principle on the political left?   In terms of ideology, I mean, not in terms of individual policitians, some of whom one can even respect.

Sorry, my sarcasim switch was not illuninated.
 
Horse_Soldier said:
...
Is there still such a thing as principle on the political left? ...

There's not a whole lot on the political right, either, in my opinion.

For that I believe you can blame the Liberal Party political professionals back in the mid '60s.  They recognized that Canadians are driven, in very large measure, by two emotions: greed and envy.

It was the envy â “ principally envy of the USA â “ that struck them  In the '60s Canadians were desperate for a Canadian this or Canadian that or Canadian whatever else the Americans had, and nothing mattered more than a Canadian equivalent to an American celebrity and, by about 1965, no American had been more celebrated that John F. Kennedy.

The Americans had visions of Camelot and Jackie in widow's weeds; we had Lester B. Pearson (squeaky voice and bow ties) and John Diefenbaker, with his lovely wife Olive (Olive!?!) who was featured in the national media for putting up her own preserves in 24 Sussex Drive.  Not a whole lot of Camelot up here.

The Liberal brain trust assessed us, Canadians, and decided that they could run a fire plug and win if it was a Kennedyesque fire plug; they did and they did win and they learned the lesson well.

It took the Tories a while â “ they finally got it 'right' by running a philosophical Liberal Conservative (no policy but the pursuit of power for its own sake) who was telegenic against a conservative Liberal who stammered.  The Liberals responded by running a phoney 'tit gars whose only claim to fame (other than having presided over 20% inflation rates whilst finance minister) was that he was not Brian Mulroney.

Now they are all at it: policy must always take a back seat to electoral shenanigans and advertising and to pandering to a national press corps which is intent of selling sizzle and which needs conflict, not policy discussions, to do that.

<rant = off>


 
Edward Campbell said:
There's not a whole lot on the political right, either, in my opinion.

No arguments here.  I just find it ironic that the left always loudly proclaims itself to be principled - as a way of setting themselves apart from the heartless, unprincipled right.  It sort of brings political hypocrisy to a higher level  ^-^
 
Edward Campbell is right - as they say in the North End of Halifax "right on" - I too know Brian
Tobin - lot more to Tobin than meets the eye, but he has the same ability as Brian Mulroney
and Gerald Regan (former Premier of NS) - the "blarney" - but Tobin will not run for leadership
-cannot win the Crown, in my opinion. But most of the readers of the Forums know as well as
I do, that this country needs a total change in direction. I used to think that Harper could
accomplish this, but the Toronto media are destroying him, primarily because of his opposition
to same sex marriage (connubial sodomy), which many of the old line Liberal families are
enraged about, as well as Martin's Supreme Court appointments. Although there is not much
media knowledge of this, several Liberal seats in this region, occupied by same sex marriage
supporters are targeted for defeat, not by Tories, but by pissed off Liberals. MacLeod
 
Looking at what is passing for leadership these days, I am more convinced than ever that the real key to changing the nation is making it a self help project starting at the Municipal level. If cities can get organized to really concentrate on what is important, cut their budgets and deliver a small measure of tax relief to their constituents, then I think you will see a big sea change as voters realize there is a better way, and also as a new generation of civic politicians who are for prioratizing, tax and spending cuts begin to move into Federal and Provincial politics.
 
Many young men and women aspire to enter a political career through Municipal politics, but
find, much to their chagrin, that Municipal administration, municipal politics, parochialism and
mediocrity are so mind numbing that they opt out, and walk away. Douglas Fisher examined
the current Federal Cabinet in the Ottawa Sun last week, (still on the net today) and I must
agree with his observations - in the case of the Federal Cabinet, advanced mediocrity is the
standard, so that the leader does not have to, like our Tom Cat Maxx, look over his shoulder to
see who or what is creeping up on him. Municipal politics in the Atlantic region are bastions
of boredom, and I suppose virtually everywhere in Canada, but also generated by incompetence
which to my continuing amazement, the voting public could care less about. MacLeod
 
Well, I guess if you like Alan Rock you'll love this, from today's Ottawa Citizen:

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=c2afca23-9bfd-48d8-aeae-e9b32ae1d5a8
Liberal insiders look to Bob Rae as possible successor to Martin

Lee Greenberg
The Ottawa Citizen

Friday, July 22, 2005

Lifelong New Democrat Bob Rae, the cerebral former leader of one of the most unpopular governments in Ontario history, is being touted in some Liberal circles as a possible successor to Prime Minister Paul Martin.

"When people talk about who are potential leaders, Bob Rae's name does make the list," said Senator Terry Mercer, a onetime national director of the party and an ally of former Prime Minister Jean Chretien. "It's been speculation more than (anything). There's been no one come and say look, 'I've been thinking of supporting Bob Rae for leader, what do you think?'"

Nevertheless, Mr. Mercer said the 56-year-old former MP's name first surfaced as a potential candidate six months ago. It has not disappeared since.

In recent years, Mr. Rae has made clear his disillusionment with some aspects of the political left. During his hiatus from party politics, he has had virtually nothing to do with the NDP, party insiders say, with the exception of personal donations.

He has surprised some people with his hawkish views on security. In a notorious 2002 National Post article, he lambasted the federal NDP's foreign policy (embodied by the "histrionic crank" Svend Robinson).

"The NDP opposes the World Trade Organization, sits on its hands when (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair praises the advantages of markets, and denounces any military action against terrorism, whether by the United States, Canada or Israel," he wrote. "This is not a vision of social democracy worthy of support."

Furthermore, Mr. Mercer and other former Chretien loyalists pointed to Mr. Rae's friendship with many senior Liberals, including his brother John, a powerful backroom player who chaired three Chretien election campaigns and two leadership contests.

From his office at Montreal's Power Corp., where he serves as executive assistant to chairman Paul Desmarais, John Rae was reluctant to talk about his younger brother's future in the Liberal party.

"First of all, there is no federal leadership (contest). ... That is just a point of fact," he said. "Secondly, I would make no comment."

Bob Rae, a Rhodes scholar whose sandy blond hair has been replaced by a shock of white since retiring from politics in 1996, was in Baghdad this week, advising the Iraqi government on a new constitution.

Through his assistant, Mr. Rae denied an interview request.

In 1990, Mr. Rae ushered in Ontario's first and only socialist government, winning a solid majority over David Peterson's Liberals. Almost immediately, his government was beset by problems stemming from a global recession.

Many within his party still harbour resentment towards Mr. Rae for what they see as twin betrayals of the social contract, where public servants were forced to take unpaid vacation, known as Rae Days, to help the public purse, and his reneging on a promise to introduce public auto insurance.

Others, like former staffer Cim Nunn, are more forgiving. "He was made to wear a lot of things as leader that weren't really his fault. For the past 10 years he's been a convenient target and a scapegoat."

Mr. Nunn says that, while he'd be shocked and disappointed to see Mr. Rae run as a Liberal, Mr. Rae is "not a real leftie (in the context) of our party. He always understood that to make change you needed to compromise."

"I think probably the federal Liberals are more in line with Mr. Rae's way of thinking," added Mr. Mercer. "He would have some ground to make up, obviously. ... But I wouldn't discourage Mr. Rae from entering the race. He would be a credible candidate."

In the 10 years since his party was trounced at the polls at the hands of Mike Harris's Conservatives (the NDP fell from 74 seats to just 17), Mr. Rae has undertaken what he has termed a "public rehabilitation" of his image.

He has had a hand in weighty issues (co-authoring a recent report on Ontario's postsecondary education) and served as peacemaker for others (mediating the aboriginal fishing dispute in Burnt Church, N.B., and was named special adviser to deputy prime minister Anne McLellan on the Air India fallout).

"Ten years later, he seems to have been reinvented as an elder statesman," says Conservative pollster Greg Lyle, president of Innovative Research Group.

Mr. Lyle says Mr. Rae's pragmatic politics would easily fit into the Liberal party. He cites former B.C. New Democrat Premier Ujjal Dosanjh as an example.

"Coming from the left basically means people trust your motivation on social issues," he says. "I think he's a very plausible candidate.

"Ask yourself: Where are the Chretienites, the left of the Liberal party, going to go? They have no candidate except maybe (former justice minister) Martin Cauchon. And he doesn't really have a strong base in English Canada."

© The Ottawa Citizen 2005

At this very moment, as the article says, Bob Rae is in Amman, Jordan, taking a break from his duties as one of the constitutional advisers to the Iraqi government in Baghdad.  He commented, this morning, on the sheer joy of being able to walk down a street without the constant company of mind numbing fear and a heavily armed escort.


 
Admire Bob Rae - he is being considered for GGC, to replace GGC Clarkson. I doubt if Mr Rae would
consider life as a Liberal. MacLeod
 
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