NEIP...what is your opinion?

[FSTO]

Okay Dolphin_Hunter we catch your drift. You're not too enamoured with the way the Navy does some things.

The reason for NEIP was, as per normal, a response to the actions of a few. Was it an over reaction? Probably but something had to be done.

To hammer this point home I got on my soapbox during a QL3 Navigation class. The class was noting that some of the videos they were seeing were out of date. My reaction was this, the reason we (the staff) are not working on the administration of improving their education experience, getting new training kit and updating the videos is because we are spending most of our time on the 2 or 3 guys who are in the crap! I said to the class that with the Initial Counselling, Recorded Warning, C&P, letters to DMCARM, Police Reports, Drug Tests (all this for one guy) and all the rest, the amount of time we can spend on the other 95% is quite limited. I also told the students that it is incumbent on them to discourage the adverse behaviour of the bad apples and if the bad ones won't stop then bring it to our attention and we can deal with it. This is not being a rat because I pointed out to them that would they be comfortable during rescue stations, or a RAS or fighting a fire if their partner was not completely in control of his facilities. The sea is an unforgiving environment and we need people who are dedicated to the service and not more concerned with finding the next hit.

 

[navymich]

The reason for NEIP was, as per normal, a response to the actions of a few. Was it an over reaction? Probably but something had to be done.

Exactly FSTO.  And like most things, it's not going to be perfect, or work the way it should, the first time through.  Maybe/hopefully they will take the constructive criticism and work the kinks out of it.  Or they might cancel the program, or completely start from scratch with it.  I'm sure that we can all name some things in our military career that we've thought were completely worthless or that we could have done better if we had been in charge.  But you roll with it, submit your comments and carry on.

 

[Sub_Guy]

The actions of a few and everyone pays?  How is that good?  Was Nelles block turning into a gangland or something?

How about severely punishing the few, the message would get out pretty quick.  Sure the NEIP program sounds good, how about incorporating into the NETP course?

Another option could be that the schools could increase the workload on the QL3 training thus giving the students more work to do in the block, and those who want to piss around will without a doubt fail. 

The only real opinion that matters is that of the instructors and students, I have heard some bad reviews from a few instructors, but I am sure that there are many who think its great.  The problem is that most will see those who are complaining as leaf's fans (whiny babies  :crybaby: - like some see me - not a leaf's fan) so if they critique it professionally it might help but I doubt it.

 

[navymich]

The actions of a few and everyone pays?  How is that good?  Was Nelles block turning into a gangland or something?

I don't think the program was designed as a punishment, although many saw it that way.  From what I understand, and from what was said in the earlier parts of this thread, the program was also an introduction to the area.  The actions of some might not have been severe enough for charging or such, but more of the disruptive nature.  In turn, develop a program to keep everyone busy.

The point of the program was to put the new arrivals to Esquimalt on it, so the fact of adding extra workload to the 3's courses, or incorporating the information into the NETP course wouldn't have worked as many sit around on PAT waiting for those courses.  And therein laid the problem "idle hands..."

...I have heard some bad reviews from a few instructors, but I am sure that there are many who think its great. 

Right now, we are only getting the information about the course from the students that were on it, and from others through heresay.  To get the side from the instructors (good AND bad) as well as background from the developers of the program, would add a whole new perspective.

 

[SoF]

I found the forced pt to be completely useless. If someone doesn't want to workout then they wont. I'd see people duck out the gym (sometimes including me if I had already done course pt); or even worse you'd see people chatting it up or sitting in the hot tub for a couple hours. Yes the program was designed to keep new sailors out of trouble but all neip has done is punish hard working individuals because as we all know trouble makers will seek trouble one way or another; doesn't matter if they're off work at 4 or 8 at night.

 

[Sig_Des]

I found the forced pt to be completely useless. If someone doesn't want to workout then they wont. I'd see people duck out the gym (sometimes including me if I had already done course pt); or even worse you'd see people chatting it up or sitting in the hot tub for a couple hours. Yes the program was designed to keep new sailors out of trouble but all neip has done is punish hard working individuals because as we all know trouble makers will seek trouble one way or another; doesn't matter if they're off work at 4 or 8 at night.

Sounds like a incorrect solution to a problem. If there's a problem with people keeping in shape, and you need to implement forced PT, then you should be supervising and leading said PT.

That being said, I don't agree with having to implement forced physical training, because "people aren't wanting to workout, so they won't". There's lot's of things in the military that no one wants to do, but if it comes to you, you don't have to want to. You just have to do it.

As far as PT, the way I look at it is, it's your JOB to be fit enough to perform your duties. The employers who PAY you to work out and stay in shape are few and far in between.

 

[Auxtime]

I have been on NEIP now for a month, and I found that the first week was informative, and helpful, and the 3 weeks after it has become more and more apparent, that it is a make-work project, to keep people out of shit. It feels more and more like i am being punished for someone else's mistakes.

The cleaning stations are a joke, as they have hired cleaners...so everyone just goes to their rooms. I don't mind the PT, I just don't think it should be for two hours. PT would be better if it were only 1 hour, and lead by psp staff, and those already doing mandatory PT on course should be exempt. There really hasn't been an informative lecture since the first week.

NEIP should be only a month, or they should actually make it informative, and have lectures on naval history and tradition, and information about the ships in harbour, and the general doings going on in the base, instead of the ever consistant don't do drugs lecture.

NEIP on the whole is uninspired.

 

[George Wallace]

....... I don't mind the PT, I just don't think it should be for two hours. PT would be better if it were only 1 hour, and lead by psp staff, and those already doing mandatory PT on course should be exempt. .

I don't think you grasp the idea of "Remedial PT".  Those people can't keep up with normal PT, so just like some students who need to get extra tutoring to pass, so these people need extra PT to pass.  You wouldn't want the people that need the extra tutoring to be exempt class too, would you?

As for the two hours of PT: You just complained that the rest of your Course Day was a waste of time, and now you want to cut down the PT by one hour..............So that you can have yet another hour each day of wasted time.

I took Logic 101 at university, and those two theories fail the litmus test.

 

[Auxtime]

I currently do an hour of PT lead by the psp as a part of my NETP course twice a week, what Im saying is that if NEIP was to actually have a PT class where it was lead by PSP staff, those on NETP should be exempt, as it would be unfair to require them to do PT 4 times a week, and to have those off course only do it twice a week. But I am still advocating for NEIP to have a psp lead PT class. None of the PT here is "remedial". The way PT works for NEIP right now is that you show up to the gym for two hours and play a non-competitive game of some sport... or you sit there and talk to people, or you goto the pool... very few people are actually working out and most are sneaking out as soon it is possible. It is  basically there to eat up your time. If they are going to use up my time, I want it to be at least worth while.

 

[George Wallace]

I............... It is  basically there to eat up your time. If they are going to use up my time, I want it to be at least worth while.

So?  Put it to good use.  Run.  Go to the Weight Room.  Play a Team Sport.  Use the Raquet Ball Courts.  Swim. 

It is only a "waste of time" if you make it a waste of time.

 

[Auxtime]

If I wanted PT 4 times a week I would have joined the army. I already RUN, do circuits, and do weightlifting.

I am talking about how to improve NEIP from the Ordinary Seamans perspective, as I am currently in the program, and can see some major problems with it.

I am not trying to get myself out of pt, or do less work. I want the program to be worthwhile, fair, and make sense. Because as it stands, it is a make-work project.

 

[aesop081]

If I wanted PT 4 times a week I would have joined the army.

PT 4 times a week should not be limited to the army. Thanks for giving yet another reason for people to think the other services are slack.

From an airforce guy who does PT 6 days a week (flying schedule permitting)

 

[Sig_Des]

I currently do an hour of PT lead by the psp as a part of my NETP course twice a week, what Im saying is that if NEIP was to actually have a PT class where it was lead by PSP staff, those on NETP should be exempt, as it would be unfair to require them to do PT 4 times a week, and to have those off course only do it twice a week.

Wow...4 PT sessions a week...how unfair. I guess if I had a heart, I'd shed tears.

If I wanted PT 4 times a week I would have joined the army

Hmm...so, what you're saying is, that strenuous and energy-intensive activity is limited to the Army? As much as I like slagging the squids, I know a few who'll be a bit upset when they hear that.

BTW, if you need PSP staff to lead your PT sessions, do you also need one of the employees to hold your hand down the aisles of a grocery store?

 

[Auxtime]

sorry, my mistake for sharing my opinion on an internet forum. That will teach me for trying to make suggestions to improve a program.

 

[Sig_Des]

sorry, my mistake for sharing my opinion on an internet forum. That will teach me for trying to make suggestions to improve a program.

Ah, allow me to clarify.

While short, I could agree with what you state here, as you offer something of value that could be implemented.

NEIP should be only a month, or they should actually make it informative, and have lectures on naval history and tradition, and information about the ships in harbour, and the general doings going on in the base, instead of the ever consistant don't do drugs lecture.

Where you lose me is the "Woe is me, I must do PT 4 times a week, but I'm not in the Army, so why should I".

I'd rather be getting paid to keep myself fit, then sitting around doing nothing. Why would you want to cut something of value?

 

[Auxtime]

Wow...4 PT sessions a week...how unfair. I guess if I had a heart, I'd shed tears.

Hmm...so, what you're saying is, that strenuous and energy-intensive activity is limited to the Army? As much as I like slagging the squids, I know a few who'll be a bit upset when they hear that.

BTW, if you need PSP staff to lead your PT sessions, do you also need one of the employees to hold your hand down the aisles of a grocery store?

I am not saying it is limited to the army. I could have easily said Diver, or boarding party.


I use my time at PT to be physically active. There are large amounts of people on NEIP that dont. If they want OS bloggins to get into the routine of being physically active, then they are doing a poor job of it. I am trying to improve the program... I am not sure why you guys are attacking me, like I have slighted you...

 

[George Wallace]

sorry, my mistake for sharing my opinion on an internet forum. That will teach me for trying to make suggestions to improve a program.

???

Suggestions?  Sounded more like complaints with some less than usual amount of thought put into your ideas and a lack of initiative to do PT on your own when the opportunity was given to you.

If you can't take critisim, or have your 'theories' disected and analysed, it is a waste of time you being in the CF or any job.  The flaws in you logic were pointed out to you, and the possibility that your were insulting other members with your comments, and now you want to take off and sulk.  That will not take you very far in the world today.

 

[Auxtime]

I'd rather be getting paid to keep myself fit, then sitting around doing nothing. Why would you want to cut something of value?

Being paid to be fit is fine. I am just tired of having my time wasted with NEIP, when the program could be so much better.

 

[George Wallace]

........... I am just tired of having my time wasted with NEIP, when the program could be so much better.

And that is why there are "Weekly Standards Critiques" and an "End Course Critique".  There are mechanisms in place to address short comings of Courses/Course material/Course structure/Course facilities/etc.

 

[Sig_Des]

Being paid to be fit is fine. I am just tired of having my time wasted with NEIP, when the program could be so much better.

I recently was going through my pictures of Exes since I did my basic. Prevalentl were pictures of guys lying aroung. If you don't like wasted time, you're in the wrong line of work.

Best you can do is take what you can from the program, and take the time given to you to keep fit.

If it irks you so much, talk to the PSP staff, get them to give you a good basic work-out schedule, and pass it on to those you think aren't doing what they can to keep fit, or talk to your staff about it.

At the end, when it comes time for your AAR, bring up your points and suggestions there.