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Navy to consider gender-neutral ranks

Jarnhamar

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Chief Engineer said:
Actually it is, it gives you the option to leave comments. The RCN Chief has also said on social media that all options is on the table.

"All options on the table". Sure, they may be on the table but does anyone believe the "winner" hasn't already been picked?
 

Stoker

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Jarnhamar said:
"All options on the table". Sure, they may be on the table but does anyone believe the "winner" hasn't already been picked?

I know the guy so I don't think he would lie, that being said how would you really know.
 

Jarnhamar

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Chief Engineer said:
I know the guy so I don't think he would lie, that being said how would you really know.

Not to imply he was lying himself, just that I can't see the navy not having already made up their mind for the most part.
 

Stoker

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Jarnhamar said:
Not to imply he was lying himself, just that I can't see the navy not having already made up their mind for the most part.

I agree
 

NavalMoose

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How about using the trade a sailor is in....Leading Marine Engineer, Master Bosun, Able Nav Comm etc?
 

NavalMoose

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Strange, for some reason I thought the RN had already gotten rid of the "seaman" rank title and only used Able Rate and Leading Rate.  I guess that was wrong (according to the article).

The RN only ever used "seaman" for members of that branch ie Bosuns.  All other ratings went by their branch/trade for example I was an LMEM(L) all those years ago
 

stoker dave

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Note the word 'engineer' is limited in use to those who have an engineering license to practice engineering.  In Ontario, see here:

https://www.peo.on.ca/knowledge-centre/frequently-asked-questions/licence-holders-faq

If a person uses the title “professional engineer”, or “engineer”, or any other occupational title that might lead to the belief that the person is qualified to practice professional engineering, or uses a seal that leads to the belief that the person is an engineer, PEO will prosecute the matter through provincial court. Fines for people found guilty can range from $10,000 for a first offence, to $50,000 for repeat offences.

So use caution in identifying individuals as 'engineers' when they are not authorized to be identified as such. 
 

Sub_Guy

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Halifax Tar said:
I have heard the term permeating in the RCN recently as well.  For instance on FRE right now, the JRs mess is often refered too as the Jr rates mess.  I dont know how this happened or where its come from, but it seems to have taken some hold.

That’s what we called the MS and below mess on the Victoria.  Junior rates mess, I just figured it was something that came from the RN.
 

Remius

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The issue isn’t job titles, the issue is professional designations.

Like post nominals.  PEng and such. 

Our signature blocks for one contain rank, name, post nominals and unit and job position in said unit for the most part. 
 

chrisf

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stoker dave said:
Note the word 'engineer' is limited in use to those who have an engineering license to practice engineering.  In Ontario, see here:

https://www.peo.on.ca/knowledge-centre/frequently-asked-questions/licence-holders-faq

If a person uses the title “professional engineer”, or “engineer”, or any other occupational title that might lead to the belief that the person is qualified to practice professional engineering, or uses a seal that leads to the belief that the person is an engineer, PEO will prosecute the matter through provincial court. Fines for people found guilty can range from $10,000 for a first offence, to $50,000 for repeat offences.

So use caution in identifying individuals as 'engineers' when they are not authorized to be identified as such.

You should let Transport Canada know, so they can stop issuing tickets to Marine Engineers and Aircraft engineers.
 
S

stellarpanther

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NavalMoose said:
Leading Marine Technician, Master Weapons Technician, Able Sonar Operator etc

How will people know what trade they are if the only thing they have on their should is rank?
 

dimsum

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stellarpanther said:
How will people know what trade they are if the only thing they have on their should is rank?

Follow our allies and have a trade identifier on the uniform? 

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Halifax Tar

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NavalMoose said:
Leading Marine Technician, Master Weapons Technician, Able Sonar Operator etc

I said similar on page 4

Halifax Tar said:
I like the idea of adding branch to the Ordinary or Leading ect ect...

Ordinary Boatswain -> Master Boatswain

Ordinary Marine Engineer -> Master Marine Engineer

Ordinary Combat Systems Engineer -> Master Combat Systems Engineer

Ordinary Logistician -> Master Logistician

The only one I am stuck on would be the Ops/Combat dept...

All ranks/branches after Master would adopt the existing PO2 -> CPO1 Ranks and names.

And have long thought our trade badges should be on our work dress uniforms.
 

BeyondTheNow

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IMO, rank+trade badge system just gives those certain types of individuals another chance to get their kicks by jacking up someone either in a different element or newer member who doesn’t have all the trade badges identified/memorized.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Is there an option for 'I don't give a f@$%, as long as you pay me?"
 

Navy_Pete

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BeyondTheNow said:
IMO, rank+trade badge system just gives those certain types of individuals another chance to get their kicks by jacking up someone either in a different element or newer member who doesn’t have all the trade badges identified/memorized.

There would be a lot of them too; there are a number of different 'dib' trades (NESOP, sonar op, etc), plus nav comms, WEng techs, bosuns, cooks, sup techs, clerks, Martechs (and probably a few more I'm forgetting about). Most trades are still called by a nickname or a legacy trade name anyway, so think it would get confusing to try and have a distinct rank name for each trade, without actually adding anything.

I kind of like the 'Seafarer' suggestion the RN is looking at; it rolls off the tongue a bit easier, and doesn't sound grammatically off like 'sailor' does.

I prefer things like parts on the shelves, available repair resources, and OPSCHEDS that allow you to fix things and spread maintenance time around the fleet in a logical way, but they aren't mutually exclusive concepts. However it does still seem like fiddling while Rome is burning when some of those things could be directly addressed by the leadership (particularly the available maintenance time and feast/famine loading created by not staggering ship SWP and sailing schedules). The frigates are 30 years old, but are being driven like rentals, as if a new combat system means that the hull doesn't have 25-30 years of wear with some original equipment actually bought in the mid 80s.
 
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