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Navy Reserve Intelligence

TheSam

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The information I've found is quite sparse. Can anyone fill me in on some more details?
 
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aesop081

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TheSam said:
The information I've found is quite sparse.

If we told you, we would have to kill you  ;D

Seriously though, type " navy int " in the search function, we had a thread going only 2 days ago on that.
 
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aesop081

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TheSam said:
Yeah but theres not much at all in that thread.

Well, if no one had information to put in that thread, what makes you think a new thread will yeild more ?

Just curious......
 

Monsoon

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In any case, specific questions yield specific answers. General questions yield answers like these.
 

TheSam

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1) On a Day to Day Basis, what does a Navy Reserve Int. officer do?

2) I'm currently a post secondary student (attending SFU next year). Would the CF offer full summer employment? What would the commitment be during the school year?
 

medaid

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TheSam said:
1) On a Day to Day Basis, what does a Navy Reserve Int. officer do?

2) I'm currently a post secondary student (attending SFU next year). Would the CF offer full summer employment? What would the commitment be during the school year?

1) Same as any other PRes Int Officers, with the exception of focus on Naval Control and Guidance of Shipping.

2) You should've searched. Obviously you didn't.

HMCS Discovery which is the ONLY NavRes unit on the mainland has no Int O positions. 6 Int Coy has no Int O positions either. I would suggest that you seek else where, and even if there were, the likelihood of you getting one of those positions is SLIM.

All of them are currently filled by current CF members. Hiring off the street even for PRes Int Os is rare.

 

TheSam

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If I were to be on the mainland, would it be possible to be posted on the island instead? Its not a long trip over.

If they don't hire off the street, how would you work your way up to it?

And finally if you wanted to make the summer BMQ, when should you have your paperwork in?
 

dimsum

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TheSam said:
If I were to be on the mainland, would it be possible to be posted on the island instead? Its not a long trip over.

If they don't hire off the street, how would you work your way up to it?

And finally if you wanted to make the summer BMQ, when should you have your paperwork in?

You can talk to HMCS MALAHAT in Victoria, but with the time involved in getting there and back on BC Ferries every week (or more), is it really worth it? 

Also, officers go through BMOQ, not BMQ.  That's for NCMs.
 

Monsoon

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MedTech said:
HMCS Discovery which is the ONLY NavRes unit on the mainland has no Int O positions. 6 Int Coy has no Int O positions either. I would suggest that you seek else where, and even if there were, the likelihood of you getting one of those positions is SLIM.
I'm not sure what your source is on that: NAVRES recruiting positions are assigned nationally, not by unit. Units are given "quotas" for each trade, but once they exceed their quota they can just ask for more positions if they have more candidates they want to recruit.

All of them are currently filled by current CF members. Hiring off the street even for PRes Int Os is rare.
True for the reg force Int trade, perhaps true for the militia (I don't know), but not true for NAVRES. Int candidates can be recruited from the street just like Log and MARS candidates.

TheSam said:
And finally if you wanted to make the summer BMQ, when should you have your paperwork in?
The hard-and-fast deadline is somewhere in March, but the when-you-want-to deadline is probably closer to Nov/Dec. The good news is that you're not too late for next summer. Give the DISCOVERY recruiter a call and have a chat.
 

medaid

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Uh... Do you know what you're talking about? You can't have more positions if your unit has no spaces on the org chart. Officer positions are LIMITED in any given unit. Sure the unit can hire people off the streets for Int O, but more often then not they don't. There is ony 1 off the street Int O at DISCOVERY and the only reason why he was even considered was because he was studying Criminal Intelligence at BCIT.

All of the Int Os at Discovery right now with the exception of the one above came from within DISCOVERY's Company, or the came from other units.

The last time I looked on the org chart, the Int cell if full to capacity. DISCOVERY has more Int O then MARS. AFAIK DISCOVERY is NOT hiring anymore Int Os.
 

Monsoon

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MedTech said:
Uh... Do you know what you're talking about? You can't have more positions if your unit has no spaces on the org chart. Officer positions are LIMITED in any given unit. Sure the unit can hire people off the streets for Int O, but more often then not they don't. There is ony 1 off the street Int O at DISCOVERY and the only reason why he was even considered was because he was studying Criminal Intelligence at BCIT.
Yes, I know what I'm talking about. Since there's no meaningful information in your profile, though, I can't see whether or not you do. The last INT course that went through CFFS(Q) was primarily composed of people with no former service. Perhaps DISCOVERY applies different criteria in selecting INT officers, but it's by no means a trade-wide policy; maybe Vancouver is an unsually INT-rich envrionment and they can afford to be picky.

The last time I looked on the org chart, the Int cell if full to capacity. DISCOVERY has more Int O then MARS. AFAIK DISCOVERY is NOT hiring anymore Int Os.
Officer "positions" are limited in a given unit, but officers-under-training are not put in "positions", they're put on the BTL. It's expected that you have to recruit more people than you have positions for in order to produce the number of qualified people you want when their training is done. Surplus trained officers are put on separate manning lists; since the INT trade is undermanned nationally, it would be very surprising if a particular unit refused to recruit candidates just because their internal org chart doesn't need more INT Os. There's plenty of ATR work to be done, and it can be done by INT Os as easily as by anyone else. And since it takes a couple of years to make an INT O, you need to plan ahead to replace current position incumbents who will move on in that time.

Are you actually at DISCOVERY? If so, you can get the real answers to TheSam's questions from the recruiter there instead of off-the-cuffing it.
 

George Wallace

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hamiltongs said:
Officer "positions" are limited in a given unit, but officers-under-training are not put in "positions", they're put on the BTL. It's expected that you have to recruit more people than you have positions for in order to produce the number of qualified people you want when their training is done. Surplus trained officers are put on separate manning lists; since the INT trade is undermanned nationally, it would be very surprising if a particular unit refused to recruit candidates just because their internal org chart doesn't need more INT Os. There's plenty of ATR work to be done, and it can be done by INT Os as easily as by anyone else. And since it takes a couple of years to make an INT O, you need to plan ahead to replace current position incumbents who will move on in that time.

???

I really don't know where you get this idea from.  The Reserves do not hire Officers, nor NCMs, without them being assigned position numbers in a Unit.  The Reserves will not Recruit X number of Officers for Naval Reserve Intelligence, and then on completion of their course, post them to a Unit.  Sorry, but that is not the way the Reserves work.  Where you have come up with this idea, escapes me.
 

Monsoon

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George Wallace said:
I really don't know where you get this idea from.  The Reserves do not hire Officers, nor NCMs, without them being assigned position numbers in a Unit.  The Reserves will not Recruit X number of Officers for Naval Reserve Intelligence, and then on completion of their course, post them to a Unit.  Sorry, but that is not the way the Reserves work.  Where you have come up with this idea, escapes me.
Don't get me wrong, George - the member will be recruited by and assigned to the unit from the beginning, but they are assigned to a Basic Training List (which has an unlimited number of positions on it) until they finish their training. Once their training is done they are assigned to a numbered billet, of which there are a limited quantity. If a unit finds itself in the happy position of having too many INT officers for the INT-specific billets, a bunch of different pers handling strategies can be employed like putting them in an ATR billet or a non-unit manning list. I'm told this is different from how the militia does its business, so I'm not surprised you haven't heard of it before. It's my business to know this stuff, so I'm not blowing smoke here.
 

medaid

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hamiltongs said:
Since there's no meaningful information in your profile, though, I can't see whether or not you do.

I left it that way for a reason.

hamiltongs said:
The last INT course that went through CFFS(Q) was primarily composed of people with no former service.

I'm not saying there aren't. Despite the appearance of many an off the street Int Os out there, they are STILL the minority.

hamiltongs said:
Perhaps DISCOVERY applies different criteria in selecting INT officers, but it's by no means a trade-wide policy; maybe Vancouver is an unsually INT-rich envrionment and they can afford to be picky.

Not really. DISCOVERY follows the established SOPs when selecting INT Os, however, just because one applies does not mean one gets in. I wish Vancouver is an unsually INT rich environment... but that really has nothing to do with it. Every unit when hiring INT Os should be picky, it's the nature of the beast.

hamiltongs said:
Officer "positions" are limited in a given unit, but officers-under-training are not put in "positions", they're put on the BTL. It's expected that you have to recruit more people than you have positions for in order to produce the number of qualified people you want when their training is done. Surplus trained officers are put on separate manning lists; since the INT trade is undermanned nationally, it would be very surprising if a particular unit refused to recruit candidates just because their internal org chart doesn't need more INT Os. There's plenty of ATR work to be done, and it can be done by INT Os as easily as by anyone else. And since it takes a couple of years to make an INT O, you need to plan ahead to replace current position incumbents who will move on in that time.

Believe me, when you have an over abundance of JOUTs it makes it quite top heavy. Especially when the majority of the JOUTs have no clue what's going on and thus are not effective or capable at doing ANYTHING. You know you've got too many JOUTs when they've got their own Division going. When you don't have nearly enough NCM Recruits to form their own Division something should point you to the place in your head that goes uh oh.

hamiltongs said:
Are you actually at DISCOVERY? If so, you can get the real answers to TheSam's questions from the recruiter there instead of off-the-cuffing it.

I'm not off-the-cuffing it at all. He can by all means try the Recruiting office, and he may be turned down this year. I kid you not. If he would like to get into the CF, I seriously suggest that he tries something else first. Everyone currently brings something to the table that's unique to their background. Having no CF training just lets you sit there at the table and wonder as everyone else spouts off acronyms and such.

Seriously, if you think having a whack load of JOUTs running around cleaning Wardrooms and preparing mess dinners is an effective use of the unit's founding and the new members time then yes you're right, every unit should hire a WHOLE BUNCH of JOUTs just for the hell of it. Maybe it's just the Army me speaking but when I was green? We didn't have excess officers. All officers had a job or two or three. The OCdts understudied the Lt/Capts. They were either the AAdjt learning about the administration side of leadership or they were Pl 2 ICs learning how to actually lead troops, or they were FIN Os, or so forth. There were no idle bodies. There seem to be an abundance of such people when I turned black. They would sit on their hands and wonder what they would do that night. Move some furniture maybe get a lecture. Maybe.

What I have suggested is merely for the poster's own good. Get trained in another MOC. Bring something more to the table then just INT knowledge, and that's it. Instead of sitting on their hands when they join the Branch, they'll be able to contribute to the Branch in various ways until they themselves are INT qualified. Again that's just me.

I'm done with this thread. Too many people want to be in INT and too many people have no clue what INT does. With a single blind urge to be in it does not prepare one to do the job that the INT branch does no matter how much training. Experience counts, and every bit of CF experience helps allot more then those who think you can just hire off the street gives credit for.

 

Monsoon

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MedTech,

For the sake of this thread, I'm not going to pursue this either. I will just say that it appears that you're basing the advise you're dispensing to potential applicants on how you feel the military should be run rather than how it is run. NAVRES does not regard the INT trade the same way that you do (I suspect you feel it is an elite trade; pride in your job is welcome, but let's not go overboard) and a requirement for prior service does not exist as a rule, as you suggested earlier. Obviously all officer candidates can improve their profile with some time in the ranks (God knows I did), but this is not always necessary.

TheSam - Feel free to contact the recruiter at DISCOVERY. Depending on your profile, you may get accepted as an INT officer; if not, you may get your second choice and try to apply for INT later. If they don't take you, it won't be because there isn't room.
 

TheSam

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Thank you for the information hamiltongs. My application is nearly complete, I'm just waiting on the bureaucratic machine at my college to complete my request for a transcript copy.


Something in my mind tells me it would be a good idea to hand my application in to the CFRC personally. Though I would have to wait untill I'm home (christmas). Do most people just mail it in, or give it to them directly?
 

MARS

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I just got off the phone with the recruiter at DIS.  Yes - they are recruiting for MarInt.  Yes - they are accepting candidates off the street. They have 1 spot allocated for MarInt right now and 1 candidate in the hopper, but all comers are encouraged to apply, because...Yes - they can, have and will ask for HQ to increase their quota to accommodate extra MarInt officers.  I did this last year - for more occupations than MarInt - my quota was increased accordingly - and somewhere in the country where the Naval Reserve is having trouble recruiting MarInt (or whatever MOS),- that unit's quota decreased.

The "Standard NRD Org Chart" only allocates 2 positions within the MarInt Section for Lt(N) MarInt Officers.  So what?  It also calls for 4 MARS Officers, 5 LogOs, 1 PAO and 5 ATR positions.  Riiiight... because I certainly have 5 LogO sitting in my Ready-Use Locker.  In reality I have one qualified LogO - a Sub-Lieutenant...oh wait..she is my Class B Recruiting Officer.  Guess what Mr. MARS-bar or Ms. MarInt officer?  Time to learn about Logistics. Welcome to your new job as Supply O, FoodSvcsO - whatever - the only spot I cannot employ them is as my Band Officer or my Chaplian.  Heck, even my Log HOD (supposed to be LCdr LogO) is a TDO :eek: (Commander) ???, recently released and on the SRR. Besides, a large part of the "potential" for promotion during merit-board season is based on "breadth of experience" - which specifically refers to "out-of'trade" experience (for officers) within an NRD.

There is no "limit" on how large each of the Sections can be - that is decided by the limit of our authorized manning level (not sure what the precise term is) and my unit is certainly well below that.  And again, IIRC, that only applies to members on TES.  Our officers and NCMs on the BTL undergo an 8 month pre-BM(O)Q training plan (Unit-specific) that is compressed as required depending on when someone is enrolled.  The Naval Reserve, not engaging in this "weekend-BMQ" business, only runs BM(O)Q in the summers - we do (occasionally) send people on RegF courses - that is happening right now with a pre-BMOQ MarInt officer I have kicking around here somewhere - he is off to St.Jean in Nov IIRC.  But those occasions are space dependent.  So, we have to find meaningful employment for them while they wait for the next summer coursing.  No officers should be employed moving furniture - unless they are setting up for, or cleaning-up from a Wardroom mess dinner.  I would likely fire whatever Divisional Officer tried to get away with that nonsense.   But...they cannot (Unit-decision) and will not (again, Unit decision) be employed leading sailors until they have completed BMOQ and even then, not likely until they have completed applicable MOS training.  My post-BMOQ MarInt officers - and I have a bunch - all conduct MOS training here while waiting for whatever career coursing or OJT they have to complete next.  They spend their time learning MarInt stuff from my qualified MarInt officers.  And as soon as they are qualified...bye bye..for Class B or C employment at an OpCen or deployed.  I really can't seem to keep them once they are MOS qualified - too many shortages elsewhere/everywhere else.  So, we open up the floodgates and start the circle of life all over again....

So...TheSam - call the recruiter at DISCOVERY.  He is in his office RIGHT NOW and I spoke to him specifically about you, so he will not be surprised to hear from another MarInt candidate.  PM me if you need the phone number.

MARS
EDIT: for typos





 

Greymatters

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hamiltongs said:
NAVRES does not regard the INT trade the same way that you do (I suspect you feel it is an elite trade; pride in your job is welcome, but let's not go overboard) and a requirement for prior service does not exist as a rule, as you suggested earlier. 

I would not say that the Int trade is 'elite' either, but just where where on the rung would you place them?  Above or below janitorial staff? 











 
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