Navy removes USS Theodore Roosevelt captain

[FSTO]

And one of the responses: 
The USN may have different criteria, but I would think "hot messes" don't end up being COs of CVNs.

Especially one heading to operational theatre.

Then again we sent the airborne to Somalia.                             too soon?

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Dimsum]
The USN may have different criteria, but I would think "hot messes" don't end up being COs of CVNs.
[/quote]
I seen that and thought the same as you.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Especially one heading to operational theatre.

Then again we sent the airborne to Somalia.                             too soon?

:rofl:

 

[Good2Golf]

I'm going to take an opposite PoV here for the sake of discussion and argue that the relief was entirely appropriate....
...
Just another way of looking at this - but my sense tells me that if you're going to mass distribute something like this, when you occupy a position as he did, it should come with a letter of resignation.

That was what I was hinting at with my note about wondering why the CO didn’t have the engagement with the Strk Gp Cdr just down the hallway.  If one believes there is good reason to go around (it can exist), then one should be prepared to address why the go-around.

That said, maybe the CO did explain to the recipients via SEPCOR why the routing?  We definitely won’t know that in the short term.

A follow on thought...why didn’t the RDML Baker question (or counter-order) the CO when it was clear he was putting TR into port at Guam?  Yes he’s the CO of the TR, but TR is just one element of the 7th Fleet’s CSG.  Somethings aren’t quite lining up here. 

:2c:

Regards
G2G

 

[OceanBonfire]

Exclusive: Dismissed U.S. carrier captain to be reassigned during probe - acting Navy secretary

The fired commander of a U.S. aircraft carrier that suffered a coronavirus outbreak will not be thrown out of the Navy but rather reassigned, acting U.S. Navy Secretary Thomas Modly told Reuters on Friday, adding that an investigation would determine if he should face disciplinary action.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-usa-navy-exclusive/exclusive-dismissed-u-s-carrier-captain-to-be-reassigned-during-probe-acting-navy-secretary-idUSKBN21L28Q

 

[Cloud Cover]

Interesting list of observations:

 

[Navy_Pete]

That was what I was hinting at with my note about wondering why the CO didn’t have the engagement with the Strk Gp Cdr just down the hallway.  If one believes there is good reason to go around (it can exist), then one should be prepared to address why the go-around.

That said, maybe the CO did explain to the recipients via SEPCOR why the routing?  We definitely won’t know that in the short term.

A follow on thought...why didn’t the RDML Baker question (or counter-order) the CO when it was clear he was putting TR into port at Guam?  Yes he’s the CO of the TR, but TR is just one element of the 7th Fleet’s CSG.  Somethings aren’t quite lining up here. 

:2c:

Regards
G2G

What it actually says in the statement is the CSG wasn't aware of the letter; not that he hadn't discussed it with him. 

If I had to guess, my thoughts are that the CSG was willing to sacrifice sailors for the mission (and time table), and the skipper thought it was BS because the operations were general security/showing the presence.  Getting the COVID under control and delaying things for a few weeks would have left them much more mission capable then if it was sweeping through the crew while they were in the Pacific a week out from anywhere.

If you do the math, with 80% getting it (ie ~2500 out of 3200) and 5% needing ventilators that's 128 people in ICU, and the 20% down hard is another 500 sailors miserable in their racks.  It's not like it would be evenly distributed between sections either, so you may not actually have some critical capabilities with enough of the wrong folks out. Not sure what their sickbay is like, but that's probably going to be a lot of people dying.

My  :2c: is there is nothing going on that couldn't have waited a few weeks.  Not really sure what they mean by 'he set up the conditions for it to be leaked', but that seems like a convenient excuse to call in the executioner if he didn't actually leak it to the media.  Sometimes people get so blinded by an arbitrary date and other arbitrary requirements that they lose sight of the fact that a ship limping along isn't actually much use if you really need it, so sometimes makes sense to take a pause and get back to full strength.

 

[Infanteer]

A follow on thought...why didn’t the RDML Baker question (or counter-order) the CO when it was clear he was putting TR into port at Guam?  Yes he’s the CO of the TR, but TR is just one element of the 7th Fleet’s CSG.  Somethings aren’t quite lining up here.

Good point.

 

[dapaterson]

If you do the math, with 80% getting it (ie ~2500 out of 3200) and 5% needing ventilators that's 128 people in ICU, and the 20% down hard is another 500 sailors miserable in their racks.  It's not like it would be evenly distributed between sections either, so you may not actually have some critical capabilities with enough of the wrong folks out. Not sure what their sickbay is like, but that's probably going to be a lot of people dying.

My understanding is that a Nimitz class carrier has just over 50 beds in sick bay, with three ICU.  I suspect that also figured in the Captain's assessment of the situation.

 

[Journeyman]

Then again we sent the airborne to Somalia.                             too soon?

Actually the sequence was:
1. LCol Morneau: "CAR not ready to go to Somalia"
2. LCol Morneau punted, replaced by LCol Mathieu
3. CAR magically ready

      #OwnWorstEnemy    :not-again:

 

[dimsum]

My understanding is that a Nimitz class carrier has just over 50 beds in sick bay, with three ICU.  I suspect that also figured in the Captain's assessment of the situation.

And, if more sailors are sick than there are facilities, TR's ability to do...anything will take a hit.  You can't physically distance onboard ship, and if a carrier isn't launching aircraft, what's the point of it cutting laps around the ocean?  :dunno:

 

[daftandbarmy]

Actually the sequence was:
1. LCol Morneau: "CAR not ready to go to Somalia"
2. LCol Morneau punted, replaced by LCol Mathieu
3. CAR magically ready

      #OwnWorstEnemy    :not-again:

You forgot the 'Confederate Flag' emoji

 

[Blackadder1916]

My understanding is that a Nimitz class carrier has just over 50 beds in sick bay, with three ICU.  I suspect that also figured in the Captain's assessment of the situation.

I thought it was listed as 20 beds, but that's a flexible number - the important number is the staffing.  If I remember correctly, we used to list the AORs as having an 8 bed sickbay but from my brief passage aboard Provider over forty years ago, I'd have a hard time figuring out where those 8 beds could be. (And ships' medical facility design and equipment was one of my responsibilities when at NDHQ in the late 1980s).  It should also be recognized that standard "hospital beds" on naval ships (including the Mercy and Comfort) are usually twin racks (bunk beds); specialized beds - recovery, ICU, isolation, etc - are usually spaces that are equipped with the same beds as you would find in a land-based MTF.

https://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/Military_OBGYN/Textbook/MilitaryOrganizations/NavalAviationMedicine/AircraftCarrierBasedMedicine.htm
https://www.cs.amedd.army.mil/borden/FileDownloadpublic.aspx?docid=42a20fc1-ac8a-4ffd-8251-0bd4ce817be6
https://www.medgadget.com/2014/11/a-tour-of-the-hospital-aboard-uss-america-u-s-navys-newest-ship.html

 

[dapaterson]

A sister ship:

The USS GEORGE H.W. BUSH (CVN 77) Health Services Department is manned by approximately 40 health care professionals who provide quality medical care to nearly 6,000 Sailors assigned to the ship, embarked air wing, and carrier strike group personnel. The department is comprised of a 51-bed ward and a three-bed intensive care unit. Services include: X-ray, basic laboratory, routine physicals, psychological counseling, physical therapy, pre-deployment health screenings, occupational health physicals, vaccinations, and emergency care. While at sea, the department is also manned to provide emergency surgery if needed.

https://www.public.navy.mil/airfor/cvn77/Pages/Departments.aspx

 

[Haggis]

I'm going to take an opposite PoV here for the sake of discussion and argue that the relief was entirely appropriate.

If the CO didn't leak the document, he certainly set conditions for it to be leaked.  In doing so, he deliberately got out in front of the entire chain of command.  He is not the CO of some backwoods reserve unit, he commands an aircraft carrier, probably one of the single biggest strategic assets on the U.S. shelf, and one deployed to an extremely sensitive area.  By doing so, he broadcast readiness levels of a critical national platform, and clearly tries to put the chain of command into a corner with regards to options on deployment of such an asset to counter actions by regional pacing threats.  I'm only guessing that the CO was hearing answers he didn't like, and decided to escalate.  First off, the decision to ground such an asset is not his decision to make, and second of all, there is a reason we prioritize mission, then men and women, and then self.  While he may of been putting his sailors over his career, was he putting his sailors over the mission?

Admiral Davidson probably didn't appreciate his decision cycle being influenced by a leaked Scribd memo for the North Koreans to read.

Just another way of looking at this - but my sense tells me that if you're going to mass distribute something like this, when you occupy a position as he did, it should come with a letter of resignation.

That's pretty much where I was going with my post, above.  Yes, it's the job of the CO to look after his sailors and naval aviators but that must be framed within the greater needs of sound decision making and communication at the strategic level. He failed in that regard.  And, I believe more officers in the chain of command above him will be found wanting in their exercise of strategic command authority and leadership in the coming days.

 

[quadrapiper]

If you do the math, with 80% getting it (ie ~2500 out of 3200) and 5% needing ventilators that's 128 people in ICU, and the 20% down hard is another 500 sailors miserable in their racks.  It's not like it would be evenly distributed between sections either, so you may not actually have some critical capabilities with enough of the wrong folks out. Not sure what their sickbay is like, but that's probably going to be a lot of people dying.

How major a task is shutting down and restarting the nuclear systems? Thinking of TR coming into port with the virus rampant in Engineering, rather than being able to maintain whatever minimum alongside watch is required. Assume the "shutdown" part is rather quick, but would she have then been N/S without major engineering effort?

 

[tomahawk6]

More on Captain Crozers relief. It was on Fox news and my former boss Gen Jack Kean was asked to weigh in. His take was mixed Navy Sec bad and the skipper made an error in judgement. I agree with Commander Salamander and Gen Kean that the Navy SEC was wrong in not allowing the COC to act if they were going to. The priority in peacetime is his sailors. The Captain thought doing so was important even though it possibly was a career ender.

https://blog.usni.org/posts/2020/04/01/we-are-not-at-war-sailors-do-not-need-to-die

 

[dimsum]

Well, whatever the ultimate outcome, I had read something that resonated:  This case will be required reading/discussion for staff colleges or Command Boards pretty much forever.

 

[tomahawk6]

The Navy punishes those that speak out.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/its-hardly-shocking-the-navy-fired-a-commander-for-warning-of-coronavirus-threat-its-part-of-a-pattern/ar-BB12az0a?ocid=spartanntp

 

[Navy_Pete]

How major a task is shutting down and restarting the nuclear systems? Thinking of TR coming into port with the virus rampant in Engineering, rather than being able to maintain whatever minimum alongside watch is required. Assume the "shutdown" part is rather quick, but would she have then been N/S without major engineering effort?

His proposal was basically to go down to minimum crew required and get everyone else ashore in quarantine for a few weeks while the ship was being cleaned. That would have included whoever is required to look after the reactor.  From my really basic understanding, don't think reactors get shut down, but can get basically turned down to a minimum.

Anyway, it would have taken the ship out of rotation for a few weeks, but then they could come back with a healthy crew, high chance of no lingering virus on board, and gone about the business with confidence that they wouldn't have people start to die while at sea.  I guess in some cases the flash to bang on sick to ICU is less then a day, so kind of foxed floating around the Pacific.