NATO response to Russian sabre rattling

[Altair]

Altair, you do not want to send anyone to Africa.  Can you say Somali?  It is an infested hellhole that is guaranteed to eat troops and there is nothing to gain.  They have been either killing each other or selling each other into slavery for 600 years or more.  A few white faces will not stop these things from happening.

two points on that. One, a cording to the article it making it sound like french west Africa,  so one notch above the utter crap hole Somalia is.

Two, good thing I'm not white.

 

[cupper]

Stop poaching, my career manager doesn't appreciate it.

No, I would just rather the goverment send me somewhere, anywhere out of this country. I've seen enough training bases, done enough training recleaned enough tents because there isn't jack all else to do.

Peacekeeping? Sure

Rapid reaction force? Sure

Screw foreign policy, screw the public,  hell, screw trudeau. Just send me somewhere.

Just be careful of what you wish for.

I'm sure there is an embassy posting in some far of out of the way boring shit hole if you really wanted to get out country bad enough.

 

[CBH99]

Troops don't join the military so you can clean tents, clean rifles, and not going anywhere or do anything.

A foreign posting is what people join for.  Peacekeeping.  Warfighting.  Rapid Reaction.  Disaster Relief.  I don't think it really matters all that much - being able to actually DO your job is what keeps people in, not training in some remote location on the same lessons for the 100th time.

 

[jollyjacktar]

"Screw Trudeau",  Altair??  What about the Sunny Ways?  That doesn't sound very sunny...

 

[cupper]

Troops don't join the military so you can clean tents, clean rifles, and not going anywhere or do anything.

A foreign posting is what people join for.  Peacekeeping.  Warfighting.  Rapid Reaction.  Disaster Relief.  I don't think it really matters all that much - being able to actually DO your job is what keeps people in, not training in some remote location on the same lessons for the 100th time.

That pretty much sums up my career as a reservist in the 80's.  :nod:

 

[PuckChaser]

Doing shit jobs in Poland sure as heck sounds better than shit jobs in Petawawa, right? Going somewhere to stand around isn't a deployment. You want to go somewhere, put a NOI in for CANSOF. Seems like those dudes, Auroras and the RCN in the Med are the only ones in the game right now, doing work against bad guys. Being able to check off "places visited" on Facebook isn't a reason to join every task that isn't combat.

 

[Teager]

Altair I will never forget when I first got to Afghanistan. A Cpl from the PPCLI that was on the out going tour told me he hopes I have a super boring tour and don't have to leave base. Unfortunately that didn't happen and I now understand why he said that.

So for me as bored as you are right now I'm glad your not in some crap hole of a country with risk to you and your buddies. Remember things could always be worse. If you and others are put in harms way let it be necessary or as PuckChaser mentioned go CANSOF.

 

[Altair]

Troops don't join the military so you can clean tents, clean rifles, and not going anywhere or do anything.

A foreign posting is what people join for.  Peacekeeping.  Warfighting.  Rapid Reaction.  Disaster Relief.  I don't think it really matters all that much - being able to actually DO your job is what keeps people in, not training in some remote location on the same lessons for the 100th time.

This. So much this.

 

[CBH99]

Doing crap jobs in Poland actually sounds way cooler than doing crap jobs in Petawawa!

At least if your screwing the dog in Poland, you can get some travel & cultural experiences in.  As for training, it's always beneficial to train with allies and become familiar with each other's concerns, tactics, strategies, equipment, etc.

I do agree with Teager.  If your going to be put into a potently dangerous situation, it better be worth it.  That being said, there are plenty of interesting things that the troops can do that are a) interesting enough to keep them interested in a military career, b) enhance the lives of people around the world, and c) aren't putting your lives on the line the same way Afghanistan did.

Look at how busy recruiting was during 2001-2011 with Afghanistan and compare it to today.  People join the military to do unique things, travel, and be busy helping to make the world a better place (regardless of what form that may take.)

 

[PuckChaser]

Travel and experiences until some idiot gets drunk and arrested and ruins it for everyone.

People joined during the Afghan war because it was a war, and they wanted to do their job for real, instead of pretending all the time.

Do I want to deploy again? Absolutely. Do I want to deploy to NATO's 6 month long version of MAPLE RESOLVE? Extremely less keen.

 

[dimsum]

Travel and experiences until some idiot gets drunk and arrested and ruins it for everyone.

People joined during the Afghan war because it was a war, and they wanted to do their job for real, instead of pretending all the time.

Do I want to deploy again? Absolutely. Do I want to deploy to NATO's 6 month long version of MAPLE RESOLVE? Extremely less keen.

Agreed. 

 

[QV]

Travel and experiences until some idiot gets drunk and arrested and ruins it for everyone.

People joined during the Afghan war because it was a war, and they wanted to do their job for real, instead of pretending all the time.

Do I want to deploy again? Absolutely. Do I want to deploy to NATO's 9-12 month long version of MAPLE RESOLVE? Extremely less keen.

Ftfy

 

[Altair]

Travel and experiences until some idiot gets drunk and arrested and ruins it for everyone.

People joined during the Afghan war because it was a war, and they wanted to do their job for real, instead of pretending all the time.

Do I want to deploy again? Absolutely. Do I want to deploy to NATO's 6 month long version of MAPLE RESOLVE? Extremely less keen.

way to dampen it...

Almost makes a peacekeeping mission sound more appealing

 

[PuckChaser]

way to dampen it...

Almost makes a peacekeeping mission sound more appealing

Big fan of going someplace and watching genocide and the ROE prevents anyone stopping it. Or getting shot at and having to ask for ID before returning fire...

 

[jollyjacktar]

Ah, the innocence of youth.  It would be pleasing to be filled with the fire of not knowing what is out there...until that gets beaten out of you.

 

[Altair]

Big fan of going someplace and watching genocide and the ROE prevents anyone stopping it. Or getting shot at and having to ask for ID before returning fire...

Doesn't look like much genocide in French west Africa,  more like securing the region against Islamic militants.

No idea what the ROEs are but the french don't look like they are asking for I'd before firing back.

 

[PuckChaser]

Fighting ISIL in Africa is not Peacekeeping in the sense Trudeau wants. He wants blue berets and no weapons. Nice, "safe" missions that are big on photo ops, but short on any element of risk or effectiveness. There's a reason third world countries are the peacekeeping leaders, free rations and UN pay.

 

[Altair]

Fighting ISIL in Africa is not Peacekeeping in the sense Trudeau wants. He wants blue berets and no weapons. Nice, "safe" missions that are big on photo ops, but short on any element of risk or effectiveness. There's a reason third world countries are the peacekeeping leaders, free rations and UN pay.

If MILEME09 cbc article is to be believes then trudeau is looking french west Africa.

There a 4 missions currently in westeen africa.

10320 in Mali.

7511 in the ivory coast.

5869 in liberia.

216 in western Sahara.

http://www.cfr.org/peacekeeping/peace-operations-africa/p9333

Which of these would be considered french west Africa? I know which one I would bet on, but that could just be me.

 

[PuckChaser]

From your link:

How effective are peacekeeping operations?

Peacekeeping missions have had mixed results in Africa. Those that took place nearly a decade ago in West Africa in cooperation with ECOWAS—in Liberia, Sierra Leone, and Ivory Coast—are widely hailed as successes, whereas current missions to CAR, DRC, Mali, South Sudan, and Darfur, have not improved stability. “These missions have failed largely because they were deployed in a context of ongoing war where the belligerents themselves did not want to stop fighting or preying on civilians,” says Williams. He says that these missions have nonetheless managed to protect many civilians and reduced some of the worst consequences of civil war.

Peacekeepers have come under fire for failing to intervene at critical moments: The UN’s 2014 internal investigation found that peacekeepers only responded to one in five cases in which civilians were threatened and that they failed to use force in the ten deadliest attacks on civilians between 2010 and 2013. A 2014 Human Rights Watch report claims that UN peacekeepers and Congolese forces failed to prevent an attack in the DRC that left at least thirty civilians dead. In other cases, peacekeeping forces have been accused of commiting human rights abuses: AU peacekeepers were implicated in the disappearances of eleven people in CAR in 2014, and French peacekeepers are under investigation for sexual assault there.

If we want to do nothing, we go to Ivory Coast or Liberia. If we want to be targetted by ISIL, we go to Mali. With our limited troops, we're not going to change the direction of these doomed missions, and AU definitely does not want white Western peacekeepers there. Sub-saharan Africa is a quagmire even worse than Iraq/Afghanistan, and I really hope we steer clear of that place.

 

[Altair]

From your link:

If we want to do nothing, we go to Ivory Coast or Liberia. If we want to be targetted by ISIL, we go to Mali. With our limited troops, we're not going to change the direction of these doomed missions, and AU definitely does not want white Western peacekeepers there. Sub-saharan Africa is a quagmire even worse than Iraq/Afghanistan, and I really hope we steer clear of that place.

Would you rather polish maple resolve for 6-12 months at a time for years to come?