Multiculturalism or Melting Pot Discussion- Merged

[Halifax Tar]

I got to work closely with some American troops overseas. I recall they started graphing the number of times I said 'Eh?' in a conversations. Other than that there was little difference between us. We worked really well together, no issues. I found them nothing like the American stereotypes I heard growing up. I now work with American civilians and find the same thing.

I've also worked with Europeans, and their cultural differences are more blatant (not just language issues) and you have to be mindful of it. It can get ugly fast...especially with Germans, ha.

I've come to really dislike the way Canadians will point out how they are different from Americans as a way of identifying themselves. Little of it is actually true, and I've come to find it an embarrassing way to portray ourselves. When Americans ask me what Canadians are like I just tell them there is very little difference. Except Canada seems to think it can do everything their big brother USA can do, despite our much smaller population. I'm finding it's one of our major short comings as a country.

I fully agree with you. 

At the PDC we had a Brit FP organization and a Yank signals det.  The yanks had a great work ethic and seemed to mesh with us perfectly and I would love to work with them again. 

The Brits I found to be very lazy and had a over inflated sense of entitlement.  I used to purposely call a Brit staff sgt corporal because he was such a douche bag and it drove him crazy.  It got so bad our cooks shut down their flying kitchen and told them to eat ration packs.

I would say not allot separates us from Yanks.  They say ya'll as much as we eh lol

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Interesting, HT:

I heard long ago that within NATO, the Americans considered the Canadians as "Brits with a good work-ethics", while the Brits considered Canadians as "Americans with a sense of humour".

There must be some truth to that …

 

[Pieman]

I'm not sure what you'd call an American "stereotype" but if you ever find yourself in the southern United States, I assure you, the locals will do their best to meet or exceed all of your expectations of 'murica.

Ha! I will have to check that part of the country out when I get the chance. Most southern I've been is Houston and found the oil and cowboy culture alive and well. Actually the only shocking thing I saw there was a blatant separation of class via race. Mexicans served us food. African Americans were doing all the other jobs no one really wants. It's a generalization, but in general it seems to be the case.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Ha! I will have to check that part of the country out when I get the chance. Most southern I've been is Houston and found the oil and cowboy culture alive and well. Actually the only shocking thing I saw there was a blatant separation of class via race. Mexicans served us food. African Americans were doing all the other jobs no one really wants. It's a generalization, but in general it seems to be the case.

I think he meant the south-eastern U.S. (Georgia,  Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, etc). A comment which I've heard before.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

I got to work closely with some American troops overseas. I recall they started graphing the number of times I said 'Eh?' in a conversations. Other than that there was little difference between us. We worked really well together, no issues. I found them nothing like the American stereotypes I heard growing up. I now work with American civilians and find the same thing.

I don't know about other people but I would be hard pressed to think of the times I've said "eh?" or heard other Canadians say it. "Ah" is another story.

As for working with the yanks, I worked with them for four years when I was in Italy and got along with them very well. If there were problems, it was with certain individuals and not Americans as a whole.

I've also worked with Europeans, and their cultural differences are more blatant (not just language issues) and you have to be mindful of it. It can get ugly fast...especially with Germans, ha.

So true. Even regional differences, e.g. between northern and southern Italy.

I've come to really dislike the way Canadians will point out how they are different from Americans as a way of identifying themselves. Little of it is actually true, and I've come to find it an embarrassing way to portray ourselves. When Americans ask me what Canadians are like I just tell them there is very little difference. Except Canada seems to think it can do everything their big brother USA can do, despite our much smaller population. I'm finding it's one of our major short comings as a country.

Totally agree with you. In fact when I was in Italy, when I was at parties most people, including Americans, thought I was American (the Yanks based on my accent, thought I was from Kansas). The one exception was one party I said something (about??) and a RAF Wing Commander looked at me and said, "Oh, you're Canadian."

 

[chrisf]

I think he meant the south-eastern U.S. (Georgia,  Tennessee, Alabama, Mississippi, etc). A comment which I've heard before.

Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama.

Pretty much everyone was exactly as you'd imagine based on general stereotypes.

Very friendly folks, with very few branches in the family tree.

Oh, and the god damn dip, we were still finding spit bottles for months afterwards, that was pretty gross.

Texans have, in my experiences far at least, been a bunch of arseholes. Very loud hot headed people. Ive met a few I've liked, but not a fan of most. Haven't actually made it to the state yet though.

 

[CougarKing]

That's true, but aside from possibly Japan, where the population is ethnically very homogenous, every country's "culture" is regional. 

Korea is actually more ethnically and linguistically homogenous than Japan, with the exception of the Chinatown area in Seoul. 

In Japan there are actually even linguistic differences between those who live in the Southern home islands to those who live in Honshu etc.

For example, there is a distinct Osaka/Kansai region dialect/accent which people from other regions will find hard to understand.

That's why if one watches a Japanese talk show or game how, there are usually subtitles in Japanese to help people from other regions understand the accents of whoever's speaking.

---------------------

Japan is not even fully homogenous ethnically; the Okinawans were considered a tributary state of China for centuries before Japan annexed them; the Ainu of the island of Hokkaido are also ethnically different from the other Japanese.

 

[CougarKing]

And in other news...

This is from the guy who made the "fist pump of death" that essentially ended Premier Marois' campaign last year.

With luck, Peledeau will be the "gift that keeps on giving" that will drive Quebecers away from the seperatism cause once and for all.

CBC

Pierre Karl Péladeau says immigration hurts Quebec sovereignty

Parti Québécois leadership candidate Pierre Karl Péladeau says he believes immigration is seriously compromising the province’s ability to achieve sovereignty.

The perceived front-runner in the contest to lead the separatist provincial party took that position Wednesday evening in a PQ leadership debate at Laval University in Quebec City.

"We don’t have 25 years ahead of us to achieve it. With demographics, with immigration, we’re definitely losing one riding each year," Péladeau told a room of 350 people
.
He said the PQ could be in danger of disappearing if immigrants continue to come to the province in great numbers.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[a_majoor]

Nothing like having an openly National Socialist party running for office.

We have been lucky in that they have never found a charismatic leader capable of mesmerizing the population, and of course their socialist policies have left the largest and potentially richest of all Canada's provinces a perrenial "have not" grasping for handouts from wealthier Ontario (back in the day) and Alberta.

Now I just want to root for the guy so the "Big Shift" can accelerate further and speed up the political evolution of Canada.

 

[cryco]

We have been lucky in that they have never found a charismatic leader capable of mesmerizing the population, and of course their socialist policies have left the largest and potentially richest of all Canada's provinces a perrenial "have not" grasping for handouts from wealthier Ontario (back in the day) and Alberta.

Lucien Bouchard was quite charismatic. I think he is the one I was most afraid of.

 

[Kirkhill]

Found this in today's Telegraph.

A wise man that frequents these boards keeps harping on about how "Culture Matters"

Britain is a small place ......

The melting pot never happened.  At least not outside the cities (London in particular)

1400 years after the Anglo-Saxon invasion and the tribes are intact - regardless of Vikings, Normans and Dutchmen sitting on thrones.

Meanwhile the Celts are not a single group, not even the Scots or the Welsh are unitary cultures.  And Devon, Glorious Devon, is a breed apart.

Telegraph Link

 

[a_majoor]

Yes, I sort of glossed over Bouchard (although I never saw him as being very charismatic myself), perhaps the real key is the negative impact of the National Socialist project comes from the "socialist" side of the equation. Generally lower living standards and lack of opportunity tends to dillute the appeal, especially when the alternative is not only tantilizingly close, but very accessable as well (there is no "Montreal Wall" to physically stop energetic people from leaving).

At any rate, Quebec seems to have settled on Democratic Socialism for the time being, and even 308.com does not see a resurgence of the National Socialists in the near term.

 

[ModlrMike]

Found this in today's Telegraph.

Yes, I saw that yesterday on BBC. Interesting how specific the DNA has remained. As you say, not the melting pot we presumed.

 

[Remius]

Yes, I sort of glossed over Bouchard (although I never saw him as being very charismatic myself), perhaps the real key is the negative impact of the National Socialist project comes from the "socialist" side of the equation. Generally lower living standards and lack of opportunity tends to dillute the appeal, especially when the alternative is not only tantilizingly close, but very accessable as well (there is no "Montreal Wall" to physically stop energetic people from leaving).

At any rate, Quebec seems to have settled on Democratic Socialism for the time being, and even 308.com does not see a resurgence of the National Socialists in the near term.

The danger of Bouchard is that he was smart and new what was required to achieve independance.  He knew that the economy needed fixing and that all teh pieces needed to be in placve and he knew how to communicate that.  his problem was teh party hard core "pure-laine" who always used their hearts and emotions rather than their brains and essentialy drove him out becaus ehe was taking too long and didn't see eye to eye with their idea of what it takes to becoem sovereign.

When Peladeau states that immigration is a treat to independance he's wrong.  it's likely the key to winning. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

When Peladeau states that immigration is a treat to independance he's wrong.  it's likely the key to winning.

The immigration "specter" may appeal to the PQ's base, I think more immigrants does mean more "stay in Canada" votes.

 

[a_majoor]

The danger of Bouchard is that he was smart and new what was required to achieve independance.  He knew that the economy needed fixing and that all teh pieces needed to be in placve and he knew how to communicate that.  his problem was teh party hard core "pure-laine" who always used their hearts and emotions rather than their brains and essentialy drove him out becaus ehe was taking too long and didn't see eye to eye with their idea of what it takes to becoem sovereign.

When Peladeau states that immigration is a treat to independance he's wrong.  it's likely the key to winning.

Bouchard did indeed understand that improving Quebec's economic viability was the cornerstone to Independence, unless everyone in Quebec was going to be condemned to living in some sort of Northern Bangladesh (heck, they are already in Northern Greek territory). As you said, many people in the movement were disconnected from reality and wanted a sovereign Quebec NOW!; stamping their feet like petulant children.

Immigration is a deadly threat to the Quebec Independence movement rather than a help. The immigrants do not share the cultural or social values of the "pur-laine", and of course a National Socialist movement is based on the idea that the State exists to divide the economic output and bring the lion's share to the favoured ethnic-national group. Haitians and other immigrant groups are most assuredly not "pur-laine", and would quickly resent being given the scraps from the table. In practical terms, this means either diluting the aims of the "movement" to appease the immigrants, risking having the immigrants organize against you (and given demographics, they could simply out vote the "native" Quebecois in many places), or watching another fleet of moving trucks head west, draining even more real and potential wealth from the province.

At any rate, Quebec could elect virtually any non Federalist party today and it simply would not make a real difference; a national government can be formed without any party having a majority in Quebec. The only true threat they can make is to default on their debt, which wold cause huge financial stress in the rest of Canada (possibly triggering a domino effect in Ontario and perhaps some of the weaker Maritime provinces), and the end result will probably be a forcible dismemberment of Quebec, as various parts like the Eastern Townships, Ungava and Montreal jump ship for Canada.

 

[Remius]

My thought on the immigration issue is that Quebec Nationalists and seperatists have always been xenophobic (and borderline racist) and less than inclusive (teh values charter for example).  If they harnessed a more inclusive society and became more inclusive than the rest of the country and offered a much more pro-immigration, pro diversity etc etc, they would likely gain more support from those groups and showing them how much better they could be in an independant Quebec.  The real threat is indeed immigration but only because of how they treat those immigrants not immigration itself.

Thankfully this goes against what traditional seperatists want, which is a linguistically and, to an extent, culturally homogenised country.

 

[GUS021]

Hi guys,

First post and I didn't think I would reply to this kind of thread on this site.

When Peladeau states that immigration is a treat to independance he's wrong.

I think he is right. And from what I heard this morning on the radio, other separatists think so too. Also, Péladeau is not the first one to say it; remember Parizeau at the night of the defeat of the last referendum.

My thought on the immigration issue is that Quebec Nationalists and seperatists have always been xenophobic (and borderline racist) and less than inclusive (the values charter for example).

You are absolutely right. What's funny is that Drainville, which is also running to become the head of the PQ (he is the one who made the famous charter and who defended it vigorously) replied that someone that arrived in 1650 is as much a Quebecer than an immigrant who just arrived at P-E-T airport. Ya right!

The first referendum had been on identity, the second on economy but they always been driven (and this from the beginning of the movement) by one thing, resentment. And this works less and less. The real debate is only about language issue. And I find it a bit absurd especially when they say (like Duceppe this morning) that french could disappears if Québec don't separate from the rest of Canada; referring that french is not going well in the other provinces. Well, its not going so good in Québec either when you hear people speaking in Québec.

Sorry if this is a bit mixed up.

Just to finish on a separatist way of thinking. The filmmaker Pierre Falardeau one day said: "I have no problem with immigrants as long as they think like me".

 

[a_majoor]

This is more to Kirkhill's point, but it also supports the idea that the Pur Laine are racist and xenophobic. When you look at maps of where the "Yes" votes were clustered by riding, you will see the majority of pro separation ridings follow the outlines of "New France"; basically a strip along the St Lawrence river.

 

[GUS021]

And with all the different polls posted, regarding the charter of values, a very similar map would have been drawn but with more darker blue. It was a very sneaky strategy from the PQ to win a majority.

But nothing to worry, Péladeau apologized for what he said. Apparently, it was not reflecting his thought. What he is really thinking must be much more frightening.  :clubinhand: