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MSS - The Future of the Air Force

Tech

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Looking for peoples' comments and thoughts on MSS. When first deployed to Cold Lake, MSS was a proof of concept and the future of the Air Force. My feeling was and still is, the beginning of the end of the Air Force as we know it. Seems like the military will be more "marine like". We'll have an Air, Navy and Army element. We will all wear the same uniform, except our headdress will be unique. We will all deploy and stay in mods. Most of the army personnel who have OT'd to air force, will find themselves back in the field. At least, that is my view, my feelings. I hope I'm wrong, but it's just what things seem to be leaning to.
 
I've never been in a MSS, but I have an idea of what they do, and how they do it...being former army, I don't consider anything I know about MSS as 'being in the field'.

::)

The Air Force is still the Air Force, its not about the color of the friggin uniform you wear.

The only difference may be that some Air Force people may sleep in a tent and dress in green.  Big deal.
 
Tech said:
My feeling was and still is, the beginning of the end of the Air Force as we know it.

No.....it was the AF finaly waking up and realizing that war happens.

We will all deploy and stay in mods.

So what ?

Most of the army personnel who have OT'd to air force, will find themselves back in the field.

So what ? Thats where war happens ya know !

At least, that is my view, my feelings. I hope I'm wrong, but it's just what things seem to be leaning to.

Things are leaning towards being deployable and operationaly effective. An air force is in the buisness of projecting airpower, not providing some cushy retirement job to ex-combat arms types.
 
Reasoned discussion please. Tech has an entitled opinion. Careful about the 'dog pile'.

Milnet.ca Staff
 
Well, right now the MSS are training with the Van Doos in Wainwright, so if thats not the field, I don't know what is. Also, the one point I was trying to make about the OT'ing of personnel, was that the field is more of a young man/womans' world, some people grow out of it. I respect your opinions. I'm just wondering what will happen if all these people put in their releases. There are more than you think. Or maybe less of what I think. Retention is more important than recruiting, at least thats my belief.
 
Tech said:
so if thats not the field, I don't know what is.

Who said it wasnt the field ?

I'm just wondering what will happen if all these people put in their releases.

This is still the military right ? They remustered to get a new trade but if they thought it meant not deploying and gearing up for war they were kidding themselves.


Retention is more important than recruiting, at least thats my belief.

Theres no point in retaining people that cant be   are unwilling to deploy because they arent living on full TD and a 5-star hotel . The MSS concept was brought about to meet the needs of operations overseas. Someone has to run the airfield we operate from. Simple as that.
 
The point of the MSS, in association of squadrons and other units, is to setup,
maintain, and continue a deployed "airfield".  In concept, that's what we do on-base
anyway. As CDN Aviator states, that's how Canada can project air power
without massive reliance on other militaries.  The location may be in the field
set up from scratch or co-located with existing infrastructure. 

It arguable whether the field experience will cause members to leave or OT.
The problem may relate to the inconsistency and level of deployable/readiness
skills (and kitting) across the air force from member to member, and base to
base.  More quieter corners of the air force will find readiness training more
of a shock than highly tasked units who get the training much more frequently. 
Usually, you find some members don't want to deploy and others beg for the
chance, but most members understand the need for the job.





 
I respect you opinions and thoughts CDN Aviator, I really do. You're right, no sense keeping people around who will not/cannot deploy.  Then again, there is no point deploying if there is no one to deploy. It's a young man/woman's military, and looking collectively we are not that young. In our trade, within the past couple of years we've seen 5 over 50 people join our ranks. This is the cold hard fact of our trade. Personally, I'm 41 with 19 1/2 years in. I should be aiding/training an eager 20 year old to replace me. Instead I'm doing it with a 50 year old between their physio appointments.
Maybe my situation is unique. Maybe you have seen the bigger picture. But from where I sit, things look bleak. Again, I hope I'm wrong.
 
Tech said:
 Then again, there is no point deploying if there is no one to deploy.

We can play this game all day. Simple fact remains that deployments WILL happen.

It's a young man/woman's military,

We are talking about the MSS not deployments outside the wire. The average age of CF members is on the rise but the job has not changed. If people are unwilling / unable to conduct operations due to their age, they should not be recruited or retained.

I should be aiding/training an eager 20 year old to replace me.

And that means deploying WITH those 20 year olds so that they have experienced supervisors with them on operations. Training new members doesnt stop at the school.
 
I understand where your both coming from CDN Aviator and Bert. I'm just trying grasp how many Air Force personnel we will lose due to the change. I am Air Force. If I wanted to be in the Army, I wouldv'e joined the Army. I'm not knocking the Army. I respect everyones' choice. It's just not for me. A lot of you will say good riddance when I leave, I am just openly wondering how many others will leave as well because of the changes.
 
Tech said:
I'm just trying grasp how many Air Force personnel we will lose due to the change.

We will lose the ones who were kidding themselves about what an air forces does. TFB for them. This isnt Westjet or Air Canada.

I am Air Force. If I wanted to be in the Army, I wouldv'e joined the Army.

Combat operations are not the sole buisness of the army. You should know better with the amount of time you have in. If not you have been lying to yourself for a long time.



It's just not for me.

Thats fine.


I am just openly wondering how many others will leave as well because of the changes.

like you said

good riddance

Wars dont happen on home turf......thats it thats all. good luck to you and those who leave.
 
My feeling was and still is, the beginning of the end of the Air Force as we know it

The MSS concept will be a change for the air force and will affect many different people, some may choose to release, but there is no way to please everyone all the time. I don't think having to go to the field will cause a huge number of releases. I think there are varying degrees of the field. I am an OT, and going to the field now is much easier than when I was in the infantry. I am sure that ex-cbt arms types will quickly adapt to any field exercises that are thrown at them by the air force.

The air force will feel some growing pains as it changes to meet operational requirements, remember Canada is fighting a war now. The army also went through growing pains and is constantly modifying TTPs to meet the current operations. The army is no longer conducting peacekeeping operations like they did in the 80s and 90s, and equally the air force can no longer conduct business like they did in the past. Ultimately these changes are too make the forces more operationally effective. The majority of people regardless of age will adapt to the changes and any additional hardships that they feel they are being exposed to and they will carry on with the job.

 
Tech said:
Looking for peoples' comments and thoughts on MSS. When first deployed to Cold Lake, MSS was a proof of concept and the future of the Air Force. My feeling was and still is, the beginning of the end of the Air Force as we know it. Seems like the military will be more "marine like". We'll have an Air, Navy and Army element. We will all wear the same uniform, except our headdress will be unique. We will all deploy and stay in mods. Most of the army personnel who have OT'd to air force, will find themselves back in the field. At least, that is my view, my feelings. I hope I'm wrong, but it's just what things seem to be leaning to.

Time for this lurker to wade in on this one, but only to speak from personal experience with a dash of opinion. I am an Air Force purple trade and have been deployed both on an MSS to "to an undisclosed location" in the middle east, and to Kandahar as part of the JTF-Afg Roto 3. For many years in the Airforce (chairforce to some) it was difficult to get a deployment, but the world has changed and our military has adapted. Our combat arms forces are too few, so when you need to deploy forward with an airfield, like many other forces around the world, you must be able to defend it without the army's help. Our Airforce, mainly the purple trades, are getting back to basics in being fit to fight, which is a good thing. If you remember back 20 years ago, we used to have Base Defence Forces that exercised on a regular basis. This is similar but focused on deployed air fields. For those army personnel who think they are not going to the field any more if they OT to transfer to the airforce, don't panic, it is not the same standard for trg (IMHO). For those of us already in the Airforce who love this opportunity, it is great. It should not matter what element you are, if your not fit to deploy then your not fit to employ <IMHO
 
Deployed AF support capability has existed in some form or another for a very long time.  It also has ebbed and tided over that long time.  More so it has increased in tempo, becasue as others have pointed out, the CF is operating at an unprecedented op tempo -- the AF is becoming more and more a part of that.  The MSS is just a fancy name and wrapper placed around something the AF has always done, just doing more of it now, with a greater link to the overall effort vice specific AF-focused efforts.  If you weren't in it before, welcome to the fight.

Cheers
G2G
 
We tried the same uniform idea a few years ago.  We switched back. Thank goodness too.
 
I have seen a lot of interesting comments. From them, maybe the situation is not as dire as I seen it. I have heard a lot of grumblings from people in my trade, and on this is what my comments have stemmed from. It seems, however, that the lure of making extra money is making some people rethink things.
I for one, am deeply embarassed and ashamed for deploying with only the thought of making extra money. I went for the wrong reasons. I will forever live with this feeling. I wish I could go again, and do it for the right reasons, but it's not going to be.
For my brothers and sisters deployed right now, or waiting to deploy. Do it for the right reasons. Trust me, you'll sleep better.
 
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