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Ah....yeah I only got about 20 minutes into that movie.
Most Canadians can't identify the war during which Canadians fought at Vimy
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pbi said:Oh, well. Maybe he's history. >
Swallowed up in the annuals of time. A forgotten soul; never to be heard of again.
medicineman
Army.ca Legend
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pbi said:Hey....where did Shipwreck go.....?
Oh, well. Maybe he's history. >
:rofl: my office needs a new computer monitor
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Heh, As if you could get rid of me that easily. And it appears Dimsum can dish out an jabs at people but not take them in return. Oh well.
Anyway, I see a lot of people telling me that if I don't know when a battle happened, I am doomed to repeat history? You all sort of regurgitated the same phrase, so I was wondering if any of you could explain a scenario where not knowing when a battle happened means that...we will have another battle at Vimy Ridge? There's no way to take the phrase, "Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it", in any sense but the literal. Battle tactics have changed anyway, and to think that century old land warfare is a daily consideration of a naval communicator is laughable.
Not going to bother visiting the memorial in France or wherever it is, seeing a bunch of graves or whatever it is I am supposed to see won't change anything.
Some diary excerpt that had nothing to do with anything is also...irrelevant.
Hatchet man, are you trying to imply that say, a sonar operator can't be amazing at his job without knowing when some ancient battle happened? Because yeah, I can call a 97 year old battle really old when you can't find a person who was alive then to tell you about it.
And I'm glad that someone mentioned the building of the railway, that is something that should be commemorated. You all claim that we shouldn't forget our past or else we are doomed to repeat it. Well, then why is it that we like to forget the evil things that our country has done in the past? Would you not rather remember those over the proud moments? Shouldn't we be remembering things like Canada's Japanese internment camps, and the murder of the Chinese who were essentially slave labour on our railway anyway?
Anyway, I see a lot of people telling me that if I don't know when a battle happened, I am doomed to repeat history? You all sort of regurgitated the same phrase, so I was wondering if any of you could explain a scenario where not knowing when a battle happened means that...we will have another battle at Vimy Ridge? There's no way to take the phrase, "Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it", in any sense but the literal. Battle tactics have changed anyway, and to think that century old land warfare is a daily consideration of a naval communicator is laughable.
Not going to bother visiting the memorial in France or wherever it is, seeing a bunch of graves or whatever it is I am supposed to see won't change anything.
Some diary excerpt that had nothing to do with anything is also...irrelevant.
Hatchet man, are you trying to imply that say, a sonar operator can't be amazing at his job without knowing when some ancient battle happened? Because yeah, I can call a 97 year old battle really old when you can't find a person who was alive then to tell you about it.
And I'm glad that someone mentioned the building of the railway, that is something that should be commemorated. You all claim that we shouldn't forget our past or else we are doomed to repeat it. Well, then why is it that we like to forget the evil things that our country has done in the past? Would you not rather remember those over the proud moments? Shouldn't we be remembering things like Canada's Japanese internment camps, and the murder of the Chinese who were essentially slave labour on our railway anyway?
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You really are a shipwreck aren't you? Your logic is faulty. You have contradicted yourself several times in your post. I guess you are the guy why has her finger with a hammer and hasn't learned to not do it again. Oh well. Happy trails in whatever you endeavour, as I am sure you will never learn from your mistakes.
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Shipwreck said:
"Who has HIT her finger with a hammer and hasn't learned not to do it again."
Sorry for the hurried post.
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Shipwreck said:
Tell me exactly what jab I couldn't take in return. Use small words - ya know, me being old and all.
And who said anything about forgetting the internment camps and the Chinese labour? The government has formally apologized for both - that's not exactly sweeping it under the rug.
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Shipwreck said:
Whatever else you may think you are, you're not truly a member of the military profession if you don't understand and care at least a little about the military history that got us all here. Maybe, once you've been around a while, you'll realize that there's more to being a professional soldier, sailor or airman than being "amazing" at any particular little "job".
Or, maybe you won't.
If you do take the time to learn anything about your profession (instead of your "job") then you'll realize how much military history has to teach us if we are willing to learn. Don't dismiss human experience just because it's "old": there are things that an RCN sailor from WWII could tell you about naval life that you would benefit from hearing. This is a very human business, despite all the technology (like sonar...) and its the human experience that matters. History is just human experience copied down for people to learn from.
So try learning something.
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The innovations of the First World War carried into the Second, and the wars since.
Where did platoon tactics come from? The Canadian experiences on the Great War battlefield, and demonstrated with brilliance on Vimy Ridge.
The creeping barrage? First World War. Effectiveness - thanks to intense planning, coordination, and resources - demonstrated on Vimy Ridge.
Innovations in artillery, counter-battery, aerial reconnaissance, land reconnaissance, patrolling, trench raiding, trench warfare, trench defences (as simple as a corkscrew-style picket for installing barbed wire!), gas masks, signals, combined arms...all these areas saw giant leaps in advances in tactics, thought, planning...many of which are the very foundation of what you would have learned on BMQ and SQ/BMOQ-L...all from the First World War.
And you think you have nothing to learn...
Where did platoon tactics come from? The Canadian experiences on the Great War battlefield, and demonstrated with brilliance on Vimy Ridge.
The creeping barrage? First World War. Effectiveness - thanks to intense planning, coordination, and resources - demonstrated on Vimy Ridge.
Innovations in artillery, counter-battery, aerial reconnaissance, land reconnaissance, patrolling, trench raiding, trench warfare, trench defences (as simple as a corkscrew-style picket for installing barbed wire!), gas masks, signals, combined arms...all these areas saw giant leaps in advances in tactics, thought, planning...many of which are the very foundation of what you would have learned on BMQ and SQ/BMOQ-L...all from the First World War.
And you think you have nothing to learn...
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pbi said:
Oh of course, my deployments and medals are family life sacrifices are all meaningless because I said remembering specific dates don't matter. Which by the way, human experience has nothing to do with. Remembering useless facts you read in a book is the opposite of getting the human factor.
Pieman
Army.ca Veteran
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This is a throwback from the testing systems that schools use, not the purpose and point to learning historical context. You are correct in that our system molds its historical view points to its needs to a degree. However, there are nearly infinite points in history that you can read about, so we have to trust the experts who have decided what historical points are the really important ones to whatever group of people you happen to be in. That being town, country, generation, etc. That is really what is going on when people say history is molded by the people who tell it. It has to be fashioned into a story so that people can understand and relate. How does that relate to the CF and your job? Context.
This reminds me of a student in math class who asked "What is the point of 'X'? Why do I need to learn this when I don't need it in the real world."
I responded, there are few things that a person really needs to get by in the world. You need to know math in the same sense you need to know how to use a hammer. You shape your world by the decisions you make using the knowledge you have.
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Well "x" does equal the unknown, right?Pieman said:
op:I'm done here. Shipwreck is added to the <ignore> list. :not-again:
I see it's his birthday though; perhaps now in his 21st year he'll see more value in his own Naval history than Marvel comics. I'll not be holding my breath though.
devil39
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Journeyman said:Well "x" does equal the unknown, right?
I'm done here. Shipwreck is added to the <ignore> list. :not-again:
I see it's his birthday though; perhaps now in his 21st year he'll see more value in his own Naval history than Marvel comics. I'll not be holding my breath though.
Agreed. This thread should be filed under "Trainwreck".
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Shipwreck said:
Vimy is far from ancient. And like Blackberet mention, plenty was learned from Vimy, that was useful and is still applied to this day. And to put it into context for you, since your a sonar operator, I guess studying/learning about the many naval engagements and battles in the North Atlantic during WW2, particularly the development, use and deployment of the still new SONAR technology, is also just as useless for you since it happened in the past, like before you were born past.
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