MLVW Replacment?

[Kirkhill]

http://www.militarytrucks.man-mn.com/en/Products/Medium_Mobility_Military_Range__The_HX_series.jsp

Here's a link to the Medium MAN trucks that are currently being purchased by the Brits.  They are also buying the heavier SX series.  Does anybody know who their Canadian partner might be?

As near as I can understand the contenders to date we have:

Oerlikon Aerospace aligned with Stewart & Stevenson on the US Army's FMTV
DEW Engineering aligned with Oshkosh on the US Marine's MTVR
The MAN trucks are entering service with the British forces but as noted I don't know the Canadian partner if any.

Another runner might be the Steyr trucks - younger and smaller cousins to the HLVW  (http://www.swiec.com/p1-7.htm ) which might be put forward by Mercedes and/or Frank Stronach's Magna corporation.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

so what are the pro's and cons of 4x4 vs 6x6 in this weight class, the 4x4 would seem to be simpler and cheaper to build, but the 6x6 would like have better cross country performance and ground pressure.

 

[Wookilar]

Don't look at from a 4x4 or 6x6 point of view. It's all about the number of axles (yes, I know, essentially the same thing, except for the emphasis). It will be dependant on how much weight per axle the vehicle is able to carry. Keep in mind, one of the "reasons" the LSVW was "selected" was because it was a single wheel 4X4 design, whereas the big three domestic bids were all dually 4X4's. WWS claimed that their design could effectively carry the required weight without the dual rear wheels. A load of crap, of course, but I digress.

As for size being a factor, there are a lot of places where an HL/ML (virtually the same width, if you hadn't noticed) can not fit in between buildings. Remember, a lot of the places we go still use donkeys and Kosovo Harley's as their main mode of transport, therefore the roads are still essentially goat paths. Wide open desert is one thing, getting to the middle of a fair sized town is another.

Getting an HL Wrecker or an ML MRT to a job site can be a little interesting at times. Or talk to anyone that has ever driven one of the ML POL pod trucks with the puppy pod in tow.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I had the pleasure of driving a 5 ton in Germany, following an idiot in a 5/4 ton on a "shortcut" through some villages.  :

 

[lostrover]

Seeing as I might have once crossed paths with Wookilar at one point in time...............................our theatre of operations is not within North America, however our training is, which raises the issue of spares.  The FMTV platorm is over 20 years old and is scheduled for replacement in 2010.  The CF requires soemthing "old school" that will last, for our theatres, the Unimog or Pnzgauer seem appropriate, but both the vehicles have gone through alot of changes over the years, and no longer have band -aid fixes available to it (sorry tech's I know you try your dambest).  There are a few companies in the US that rework the M35 (aka MLVW platform) into the M35A2 and even modify it from existing stocks in to a 4x4 versus a 6x6.  anybody that has spent time near an MLVW knows the chassis can be narrowed quite easily.  Yes the US is using the FMTV Platform, yet the majority of its CSS comes from National Guard Units that are still using "old school" technology, and it works.  The MLVW fleet is approx. 2600 vehicles, we should be looking at a cost effective means.  Purchasing a new 2 1/2T platform for $3-500,000 per unit is now very feasible.  My rant is done.

 

[Wong]

See I was in Ottawa in the spring and I saw on the road a CDN prototype of the Oshkosh MTVR with a armour cab....from DEW eng....I suppose since GDLS is in London....I heard trought the branches that the Army might be purchasing part of the fleet from Oshkosh and the other part from Stewart & Stevenson for other type of truck....I might be wrong but since they want some special truck i.e. dental and medical truck..... For myself after seing the Oshkosh truck and some video on internet.....I would go for the Oshkosh truck.....better technology, 6 wheels independant suspension, Cat engine.....and lots of more really good features....

 

[Allen]

For those who are interested, here is the MSVS project web site which came online recently:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/admmat/dgmpd/msvs/index_e.asp

Also, the LOI for the MilCOTS portion of the project was released on MERX today:

http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.Asp?WCE=Show&TAB=1&State=7&id=PW-%24%24BW-004-14783&FED_ONLY=0&hcode=PpizxFrgWIiZMyf4SCZsJQ%3d%3d

 

[Colin Parkinson]

So they want 1500 military pattern vehicles with 1,000 SEV kits, which leaves 500 vehicles with basic cargo box. That number seems way to small to maintain a fleet for the next 15-20 years. Better to buy off the shelf then.

Buying a large fleet of commercial 5 ton trucks for general duties does make sense and reduces the wear on tactical vehicles. 

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Sorry, I must have missed it in skimming the links, but was in the projected "in-service" dates for the replacement vehicles?


Matthew. 

 

[Allen]

So they want 1500 military pattern vehicles with 1,000 SEV kits, which leaves 500 vehicles with basic cargo box. That number seems way to small to maintain a fleet for the next 15-20 years.

Are the SEV kits easily installed and removed? If so, maybe it is possible they plan to keep most vehicles in a basic cargo configuration, and install kits only when needed.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Are the SEV kits easily installed and removed? If so, maybe it is possible they plan to keep most vehicles in a basic cargo configuration, and install kits only when needed.

Nope SEV kits are a complete modification of the said vehicle.

Example, Engineer SEV adds hydraulic tank, hoses and an earth auger.

 

[Wookilar]

You might be thinking of the engineer SEV's. They're a bit of a different ball of wax with the hydraulics involved.

A number of existing SEV bodies are just boxes of different sizes/configurations. Securing a Dental SEV is virtually the same as a SEV box for the clerks/Wpns Techs/Tool Crib, etc. to work out of. An HL with a HIAB is able to lift most (but not all) current SEV boxes. I really can't see them changing that too much. We just need new bodies (and some insulation and modern heaters would be nice). Anybody seen a parts kit for a Hunter Heater lately?

Wook

 

[dapaterson]

Ideally, we'd get a fleet of PLS-like vehicles, where the pods could be loaded on the mover as required.  More flexibility with the fleet; since Dental vehicle could easily leave the office at a static site, and then re-use the mover for whatever other task arises.

Certainly, there are risks in such an approach (ie what if we need to bug out and have more pods on the ground than vehicles to move them), but with fewer and fewer vehicles in our fleets, we need to make optimal use of each and every one that is available.

 

[Gunnerlove]

Not a new idea as "back in the Nam" the US installed self contained Artillery CPs in Sea Cans, which fit perfectly under a sky crane. If trucks towing guns can't get why would you expect the CP to?

35 years behind the curve. Guess new to us is good enough.

As for SEV kits. The Artillery SEV mod is just a different bed and a troop heater.

 

[retd cpl wife]

Hello I am the retd cpl,  I have 14 yrs exp as an EME tech , veh tech that is. There are some short term things you can do to make the MLVW more acceptable until it is replaced. 1st remember the poor turn radius of the old 5 ton, there was a mod which altered the the placement of the steering box which improves turn radius. We all know MLVW turns like a train. Second as for comfort use the HLVW suspension seat for the dvr, I would suggest a little thicker padding for pass bench. As for the 3000 plus rpm scream can't do much about that unfortunately. unless you insulate the cab. It's called the screaming demon for a reason. Everyone wants a big creature feature truck.
so they can be comfy. Honestly, the reason why the MLVW was designed after previous vehicles was for simplicity. Also for quick retrieval & repairs when broken down. It is a multipurpose truck, so not everyone is gonna love or hate it.Over all it is a reliable vehicle when properly looked after.We had an MLVW MRT that ran on only 7 cyl, instead of 8 for at least 2 yrs, at the guns which did fine surprisingly.

Remember this is only my opinion.

 

[retd cpl wife]

Hello this is retd cpl again, was reading a post about MLVW brake system. What makes it illegal also is a single reservoir for brake fluid. Once you lose the fluid, you have no brake application accept for the good old hand brake, which is not an emergency brake, but a PARK brake. The hand brake is a drum mounted on the output shaft of the transfer case, to hold the vehicle weight while it is parked. One idea is to find a dual tank reservoir that fits on ML master cyl, so if you lose fluid on one side you still have something to safely bring you to a stop. Something which all pass cars & light trucks have on civilian streets.

 

[TN2IC]

Screaming demons... I"ve heard that so many times. It's refer to the Detroit engine. Boys can they scream!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Hello this is retd cpl again, was reading a post about MLVW brake system. What makes it illegal also is a single reservoir for brake fluid. Once you lose the fluid, you have no brake application accept for the good old hand brake, which is not an emergency brake, but a PARK brake. The hand brake is a drum mounted on the output shaft of the transfer case, to hold the vehicle weight while it is parked. One idea is to find a dual tank reservoir that fits on ML master cyl, so if you lose fluid on one side you still have something to safely bring you to a stop. Something which all pass cars & light trucks have on civilian streets.

Well actually most Sers IIA landrovers still have single reservoir brake system. As for the noise, I certainly didn't find it noisy, far quieter than the 5 ton and slightly more than the Deuce. My biggest whines were the lack of decent fording capability without prep compared to the Deuce, a much poorer designed spare tire mount and that the slight angle of the cab sides allowed rain into the cab as opposed to the Decue's slab sides. Also having a front spring hanger come off going through a small mud hole on a new truck didn't impress me and who ever designed the mount for that winch should have their hands crushed, it was an accident waiting to happen.

 

[XJimmy]

Does anybody have opinions as to whether or not the armoured heavy support vehicle requirements ( I realize it's just beginning to be looked at) will have a bearing on the choice of vehicle for medium support, and is any one manufacturer better able to meet this challenge than another ?

 

[GAP]

Has not the US gone through most of the various designs...why not take a peek at what they use and if possible buy off the shelf.