Military Manning Overhead positions... policies / restrictions / etc.

[ballz]

Good day all,

I am wondering if there is any official policies on Military Manning Overhead positions... particularly any limits on how long someone could occupy an MMO position and approving authorities for creating them.

 

[dapaterson]

MMO is a person held against no position.  It is not supposed to be done at all; in theory, every member is held against a position.

The goal is to have simple visibility: the establish defines the requirement (we need 17 Sgt basket weavers, pan-CAF); we then look at the manning (there are 15 filled Sgt basket weavers), and can conclude that there is a shortfall of two Sgt basket weavers.

With MMO, the work becomes more complex - since there could be 18 Sgt basket-weavers, with three MMO.  So in that case, we simultaneously have too many (one more than the establishment calls for) and not enough (two positions are vacant).

Perhaps a sense of the requirement might help in giving advice.

 

[ballz]

PM inbound.

 

[captloadie]

In the Log trade, especially in the RCAF, many of the junior officers stay MMO until a position opens up in their unit because we don't have enough "junior" billets in the units to post them against after they complete their DP1 training. This can sometimes take three years, as they have to wait until the senior guy gets posted and everyone moves up a position.

 

[MJP]

In the Log trade, especially in the RCAF, many of the junior officers stay MMO until a position opens up in their unit because we don't have enough "junior" billets in the units to post them against after they complete their DP1 training. This can sometimes take three years, as they have to wait until the senior guy gets posted and everyone moves up a position.

That is not an issue in the Army nor it seems in the Navy.  My anecdotal thoughts on it is because the RCAF has a fetish for HR Log Os.  If you look at any crop of new RCAF officers training at CFLTC more than half are HR specialty.  The running joke is real Logistics doesn't matter as long as paperwork is done...

More seriously if they are using that many MMO posns maybe they need to take a real hard look at their establishment.

 

[Lumber]

MMO is a person held against no position.  It is not supposed to be done at all; in theory, every member is held against a position.

Really? From my experience in the navy, MMOs get used a LOT.

Sea time is precious, and if you have room on your ship for sailors, they stuff you in. The ship can technically sail with only 3 un-qualified watch-keeping trainees to assist the 3 qualified watch-keepers, but in reality we have around a dozen posted to the unit when we sail. This goes for a lot of other trades, where they dump trainees into empty bunks.

There are often not enough "training billets", so they simply get added to MMO.

 

[Halifax Tar]

where they dump trainees into empty bunks.

Those bunks weren't empty.  They were used by the rating who was sent to sleep in 2 Gen Stores, the Main Laundry or a cleansing station because some Subbie required the bunk more.

 

[dapaterson]

Really? From my experience in the navy, MMOs get used a LOT.

Sea time is precious, and if you have room on your ship for sailors, they stuff you in. The ship can technically sail with only 3 un-qualified watch-keeping trainees to assist the 3 qualified watch-keepers, but in reality we have around a dozen posted to the unit when we sail. This goes for a lot of other trades, where they dump trainees into empty bunks.

There are often not enough "training billets", so they simply get added to MMO.

We're getting into the weeds on pers management here, but if those subbies are not at the OFP, then they are still against the BTL, and not the establishment of HMCS Now At Sea.  While they may be physically present with one unit, their positions are against another organization.

 

[medicineman]

I actually occupied an MMO position for almost a year because when I got promoted to MCpl, there wasn't technically anywhere to put me AND the Career Manager didn't want to post me mid-APS...so a spot was invented for me with a unit that didn't actually need me and they then tasked me back to the Base Clinic to be employed.  I was then retained there due to a Care Delivery Trial before actually posting me end of following APS - and the position number was then transferred to the actual medical unit.

MM

 

[CountDC]

MMO don't have position numbers.  Sounds more like they borrowed an empty position at the unit but employed you at the clinic, a lot of trades have unknown empty positions already that would be easier to use on a temporary basis..  Position creation is a bit of work to go through requiring an establishment change submission and I can't imagine a unit doing that for someone not being employed with them nor do I see a CM going through the headache, especially for less than a year as it could take that long to get approved. 

 

[Lumber]

Those bunks weren't empty.  They were used by the rating who was sent to sleep in 2 Gen Stores, the Main Laundry or a cleansing station because some Subbie required the bunk more.

As a subbie I spent half a deployment living out of Fwd SIS, with roundsmen and CSE techs waking me up all through the night. We had 2 subbies in #2 Sonobuoy stores (or was it #1? I can never get those two right), and one in the dive locker.

Sorry if I don't feel your pain.

 

[Halifax Tar]

As a subbie I spent half a deployment living out of Fwd SIS, with roundsmen and CSE techs waking me up all through the night. We had 2 subbies in #2 Sonobuoy stores (or was it #1? I can never get those two right), and one in the dive locker.

Sorry if I don't feel your pain.

I guess we had different experiences then.