Military I.D. and the LCBO- A "situation"

[zipperhead_cop]

"It is true that members of the RegF are bound by the CSD 24/7 - in all matters that apply to military personnel and military matters.  If I decide to mouth off to a civy (be it a cashier or a cop) - how do they lay a charge?  Short answer is, not very easily.  If that cashier was another RegF member who was of superior rank - then all bets are off...  The NDA is rarely used for civi-military interaction - only in terms of capital cases (ie. Rape, murder, grand-theft) do the CSD apply."  

Hmmm, I'll stand to be corrected.  Who is the resident military law SME?  There have been a few times when someone in town was being a particular jackhole;  fights, property damage, fighting with police, threats, threats to bring the rest of the platoon to Windsor and execute a section attack against us, etc, stood out so spectacularly that we took the time to call Borden and spoke to the Duty MP there.  To my knowledge, they are always happy to come down and retrieve an individual conducting themselves in a non-credible manner.  What they did with him afterwards is anyones guess.
Discreditable conduct is a pretty open ticket, and if there were witnesses, I imagine a CO could lay the charge if they felt the need.  One should never "decide" to mouth off at a civy and be identifiable as a CF member.  It just makes everyone look bad. 
If one "decides" to mouth off at a "cop", that tends to have it's own consequence (please see above).

Interesting, I have a couple of get out of jail free cards too or rather I mean professional courtesy thing a ma bobs. Did I mention the generals pig?

Y'all come down to our little Sin City, better in the summer, and I think the local Army.Ca patrons could host a pretty good shin dig.  I'll even personally make sure that anyone with military ID that looks like my kid made it in school gets into the bars.  Hell, we can even try the "mouth off at the cop" and you can see how we take care of things...
Not me though, I'm one of the pacifists.  :

 

[Zoomie]

I think it's all a matter of perspective and jurisdiction - MP's rarely travel off Crown property as they tend to lack the support of the courts.  A member was caught 1 km outside the base for DUI - dead to rights, good bust.  The court threw it out due to the fact that the MP was on RCMP territory and therefore could not pull over the offending car.  True story... 

I have witnessed members inebriated downtown Owen Sound mouthing off to the local city police - in all reality the police have their hands tied if they have nothing to hold/detain the member on - mouthing off isn't against any law in Canada.  This cop called the MPs and they intercepted our vehicle when it returned to base - all they did was take all our names.

 

[foerestedwarrior]

I think it's all a matter of perspective and jurisdiction - MP's rarely travel off Crown property as they tend to lack the support of the courts.  A member was caught 1 km outside the base for DUI - dead to rights, good bust.  The court threw it out due to the fact that the MP was on RCMP territory and therefore could not pull over the offending car.  True story... 

I have witnessed members inebriated downtown Owen Sound mouthing off to the local city police - in all reality the police have their hands tied if they have nothing to hold/detain the member on - mouthing off isn't against any law in Canada.  This cop called the MPs and they intercepted our vehicle when it returned to base - all they did was take all our names.

MP's(as far as I know) are officers of the peace, which give them arresting rights in all of Canada.

Owen Sound- That is a rough town to be drinking in, most of the civi's there dont respect the military at all(largley thanks to meaford). There are members of the reserves that work around there, some in the bars, and I know myself that they dont stand for people being drunk and stupid telling everyone they are in the military.

 

[PViddy]

  MP's(as far as I know) are officers of the peace, which give them arresting rights in all of Canada.

That's what i thought as well?  From what i have heard in past breifings, Base MP's also converse frequently with local law enforcement (OPP, RCMP) and will even train together at times (co-operated RIDE programs etc.).  Perhaps one of our MP friends can elaborate further.

cheers

PV

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

We have had this discussion before, I am also a "peace officer", this gives me no more rights to arrest someone than "Joe citizen". What this does give me is more responsibilities if the local authority or {s] decide that I am required to do as they request.....

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I have witnessed members inebriated downtown Owen Sound mouthing off to the local city police - in all reality the police have their hands tied if they have nothing to hold/detain the member on - mouthing off isn't against any law in Canada. 

Don't agree.  "mouthing off" is a pretty broad comment, and "hands tied" is a horrible mistake waiting to happen.  It is a criminal offence to cause a disturbance in a public place by shouting, swearing etc.  So don't think that "mouthing off" won't get you locked up.  Plus, "mouthing off" probably seems like a better idea when you are drunk, so you also have that against you.  We usually have a customer service approach to public order.  If a citizen, by his actions and attitude, INSISTS that he be arrested, who am I to deny him his demonstrated goal?  Obviously, his night will not be complete without having alternate accommodations in one of our 75 luxurious individual suites.  Pardon me?  A side order of asphalt sandwich for Monsieur?  Absolutely!  Excellent choice!  Bon Soir.

 

[Thompson_JM]

I have witnessed members inebriated downtown Owen Sound mouthing off to the local city police - in all reality the police have their hands tied if they have nothing to hold/detain the member on - mouthing off isn't against any law in Canada.  This cop called the MPs and they intercepted our vehicle when it returned to base - all they did was take all our names.

though I'm not a cop, one thing ive learned working in the security industry is to pick your battles... I imagine the reason the Owen Sound Police probabbly had grounds to arrest him, but decided against it for a variety of reasons. Too busy with more important stuff, too many other people doing it as well... or one of a million different reasons...

Ive learned something else... Dont BS a BS-er... or in the case of a police officer... dont try and tell him the law... odds are he knows it alot better then the average joe, since hey.. its his job....

cheers
    Josh

 

[NL_engineer]

Ive learned something else... Dont BS a BS-er... or in the case of a police officer... dont try and tell him the law... odds are he knows it alot better then the average joe, since hey.. its his job....

unless you have been called to the BAR

I was told that the MP's can make arrests in other destructions with permission from the police force or the local government. For example one of the bars in NB (now closed) had a parking spot for the MP's and the RCMP

 

[a.armstrong]

this is a common problem in burlington but not with lcbos as much as gas stations, convenience stores , and beer stores i can however confirm that yes the temp cf id is in "the book" as the one time i had the problem at the lcbo i saw that it was infact there. and my suggetion is next time that they do this u should call them out on it and ask for the book and if they cannot find it point out that the temp id (front and back) is on all posters of acceptable id. then point out the fact that had they served they would prolly be more diciplined and have an idea on how to be proffesionaly and not loose there "kit" lol ntm know that it is valid id aslong as it has the proper signatures and unit stamp.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

this is a common problem in burlington but not with lcbos as much as gas stations, convenience stores , and beer stores i can however confirm that yes the temp cf id is in "the book" as the one time i had the problem at the lcbo i saw that it was infact there. and my suggetion is next time that they do this u should call them out on it and ask for the book and if they cannot find it point out that the temp id (front and back) is on all posters of acceptable id. then point out the fact that had they served they would prolly be more diciplined and have an idea on how to be proffesionaly and not loose there "kit" lol ntm know that it is valid id aslong as it has the proper signatures and unit stamp.

a.armstrong, let me help you out before the mods jump on you.

Spellcheck, punctuation and formatting.  All of those will help you get your message across much clearer and give you more credibility when you post.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

this is a common problem in burlington but not with lcbos as much as gas stations, convenience stores , and beer stores i can however confirm that yes the temp cf id is in "the book" as the one time i had the problem at the lcbo i saw that it was infact there. and my suggetion is next time that they do this u should call them out on it and ask for the book and if they cannot find it point out that the temp id (front and back) is on all posters of acceptable id. then point out the fact that had they served they would prolly be more diciplined and have an idea on how to be proffesionaly and not loose there "kit" lol ntm know that it is valid id aslong as it has the proper signatures and unit stamp.

Holy Batman! thanks for a response to a 4 year old thread......

MILNET.CA MENTOR

 

[Danjanou]

Yes boy wonder  but at least he used the search function. 8)

 

[a.armstrong]

Wow I am glad that everyone is more interested in getting on my case for my capital letters than actually following the thread. Thanks for the boy wonder comment too btw.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

BTW, I know for a fact how unfortunately easy it is to replicate one of those "temp" ID cards.  My girlfriend created her own using photoshop when she was underage. It was very convincing and I was sure she had past military service when I stumbled across it.

a.armstrong, the "boy wonder" comment was to NFLD Sapper.  Boy wonder was Robin's nickname when he worked alongside Batman.  Danjajou was actually complimenting you on your use of the search function!

 

[Nfld Sapper]

BTW, I know for a fact how unfortunately easy it is to replicate one of those "temp" ID cards.  My girlfriend created her own using photoshop when she was underage. It was very convincing and I was sure she had past military service when I stumbled across it.

a.armstrong, the "boy wonder" comment was to NFLD Sapper.  Boy wonder was Robin's nickname when he worked alongside Batman.  Danjajou was actually complimenting you on your use of the search function!

Bzz that has now changed, there are some "security" features in the temp ones now......and more in the permanent ones.....

 

[a.armstrong]

My appologies bzz.

 

[mover1]

A. Armstrong Army.Ca can be a cruel mistress just don't let any of the other nerds on here dissuade you from posting and in a while you too will be berating and chastising newcomers too. :blotto:

 

[Loachman]

A. Armstrong Army.Ca can be a cruel mistress just don't let any of the other nerds on here dissuade you from posting and in a while you too will be berating and chastising newcomers too.

And then when you get grumpy enough - really, really grumpy - we might make you a Mod.

But only when you're grumpy enough.

 

[aesop081]

And then when you get grumpy enough - really, really grumpy - we might make you a Mod.

But only when you're grumpy enough.

So true........

 

[FDO]

When my wife and I were posted to Toronto we had to change our driver's licence from NS to Ontario. Not a big deal right? Wrong. It says you need to have a "Government issued ID" What better than the CF ID. Apparently not good enough, never mind the fact that we were in uniform when we went in. The reason was that the Ontario DL was supposed to hold a higher level of security so it can be used to cross the border into the US, CF ID and a Secret Clearance didn't do it. Oh did I mention I had my NS DL as well? Yeah again, not good enough!! So we went home and got our passports (can't fake them right?) And back we went. They then asked if ever had a DL in Ontario before. Because both of us lived in Ontario before we got married and moved to NS they asked we said yes. Why lie you only get in trouble. So they did a check and and I got mine no problem. My wife, because she wasn't married before we moved to NS had hers in her maiden name. They then needed proof of name change. Apparently the CF ID, Passport, NS DL weren't good enough to prove that she had a new last name (for over 20 years I  might add) So off she went to get our marriage licence. She was told it wasn't good enough and she would have to go to the courts and get a legal name change. The fact that across the top of the paper, with provincial coat of arms said "Certificate of Marriage from the Province of Ontario"

Not good enough eh? The whole time this is going on we are in our uniforms. The uniform of the country that in order to wear you have to be a Canadian Citizen and have gone through several layers of security checks, the Ontario DL is a "higher form of Security"? While we were going through all this I noticed a young man in the traditional garb of his native country. He had several people in his cheering section. When he came out of the examiner's office he gave an excited yell and everyone in his party did too. When he went up to get his DL he had to have someone translate for him. So a 25 year member of the CF can't get a DL but someone who has been in the country for such a short time that they cannot even speak the language (should make it interesting on the road) had very little problems. On the way home that night my wife and I stopped at a different MOT office and she said she had never had a DL in Ontario showed her passport and walked out 10 minutes legal to drive in Ontario. So much for security!!

On the same topic of Ontario. I have a Sobey's Air Miles card. Every time I went into a Sobey's  in NS I would use it. Did you know that the Sobey's Air Miles card is not valid in Ontario. Apparently you need to have a "Centre of the Universe" Sobey's Air Miles card.