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Military Brats Born Oversea's Not Canadian's?! Even if in a Canadian overseas hospital!?!

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My mother in law was also in the same boat. She was born in germany during the Koren war where her father and mother were stationed. She was working as a nurse in teh US when 911 happened when she tried to return to border to renew her work visa, she was told that she was not a citizen of canada. Thankfully we have family in politics and most of the red tape got cut of her but still a headache.
 

Kat Stevens

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I hesitate to drag this one back into the daylight....nah, not really  >:D.  Has anything come about to resolve this?  My kids were born in Lahr, '88 and '92.  They only got a birth certificate issued by the Ratthaus in Lahr, there was no other documentation forthcoming, and when I enquired on rotation back to Canada, was told none was necessary.  I have 2 ancient passports that they were issued, says Canadian Citizen right inside... good enough if accompanied with a birth cert?  They are both coming of an age where they want jobs, but can't get a SIN until this crap is resolved.  My boy is also special needs, and therefore needs proof of citizenship for any disability benefits once he reaches age of majority.  This is just one of a long list of things that keep me up at night.  Rant ends... :warstory:
 

2 Cdo

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Just thought I would add an update to my ongoing struggles with the red tape  involved in sorting out my citizenship. Today in the mail, after only 3 weeks, I recieved my citizenship card! ;D I cannot remember the young lady who finally assisted me, but her help was most excellent.

I think what clinched it was the photocopy of my Registration of Birth Abroad, DND ID card, PAL card, and a brief letter written outlining my frustrations in dealing an issue, through no fault of mine, that never should have happened. Thus the 6-8 month wait they anticipate turned into 3 weeks!

Did I mention that as a military member who needs to deploy overseas as part of his job was mentioned in my letter? VERY important point to mention.

Perseverance troops, keep after them, keep calling, ask questions of them, and maybe it will work out for you as well as it did for me!

By the way, my citizenship card and the paperwork for getting a replacement (if req.) are both safely locked away!(Just in case)
 

Guy. E

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ooooooooooooo shit, i know some one born in Lahr? (sp) in 86 of a military family...

i know this may be kind of old, but are there any updates on the situation?

 

Kat Stevens

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Well, just got off the phone with the Immigra policia.  It seems that I have to shell out $75 for each kid, because I was unfortunately too nearsighted to get all my procreating done before going overseas.  So 2 of my kids are less Canadian than 2 kids born in Borden... Complete and utter horseshit, Oh, and by the way, you're fuckin welcome, Canada.
 

George Wallace

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Kat

It is just the Government's way of getting back all that money they paid you in Foreign Service Allowances.
 

Guy. E

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Please correct me if i am incorrect, however isn't there something conducted in our Parliament building in Ottawa called "Question Period"? does not the regular Canadian citizen have the right to bring a point point of interest or a question to the government in power?

I think it would make quite the impression if several currently serving and retired CF members showed up in they're DEU's and asked or read a prepared speech about this to the government.

get the media there and its a big stink.

or is that just a bad idea?

 

Kat Stevens

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The media was involved from the start. A "certain journalist known to this site" had a column in the Toronto Watchamacallit, about a former Lahr Brat who was told she wasn't a Canadian, because her dad was inconsiderate enough to be fighting the Cold War (look it up, it was in all the papers) when she was born.  End result of said article?  A big, fat, FU very much.....
 

raymao

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It seemed like a very scary topic you guys have been talking about. I found the following page at http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/community/mapleleaf/html_files/html_view_e.asp?page=vol8-08p18-20
to set the record straight, please read below:

Information on Canadian citizenship
By Lt(N) Robyn Barnet-Kummer

A newspaper article titled “Forces Babies Deprived” appeared in the January 23 issue of the Toronto Sun. This article has sparked many e-mails and inquiries from anxious persons who are worried that their Canadian citizenship may be in jeopardy.

The article detailed the difficulties faced by a woman in Canada who had applied for a new Social Insurance Number (SIN) card after she was married so her card would reflect her married instead of her maiden name. Her application was returned and she was advised she did not meet the criteria for a SIN because she did not provide proof of Canadian citizenship. It turns out she had been born overseas to parents who had been in Germany with the CF.

The reality of the situation is a little different than the article would lead a reader to believe. So in the interest of setting the record straight, I will try to shed a little light on the subject.

Human Resources and Skills Development Canada (HRSDC) requires a primary document with all applications for SINs. For Canadian citizens born within Canada, this is a birth certificate or certificate of birth. For all Canadian citizens born outside Canada the document required is a certificate of citizenship. This is not just for persons born to members of CF personnel who served overseas, it is a requirement of all Canadian citizens born abroad. Canadian citizens born outside Canada are Canadian citizens; they just must provide proper documentation when applying for a SIN card.

Research into the SIN issue unveiled another citizenship issue that CF members should be made aware of—some citizens of Canada do not automatically remain citizens for life.

Persons born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 may need to apply to retain their Canadian citizenship. Retention of citizenship applies to Canadians born outside Canada after February 14, 1977 to a Canadian parent who was also born outside Canada to a Canadian parent. Such persons are the second generation born outside of Canada and will lose their Canadian citizenship on their 28th birthday, unless they make application for retention of Canadian citizenship. It should be noted that retention of citizenship does not apply to adopted children.

For more information go to the Citizenship and Immigration Canada Web site at: www.cic.gc.ca.

If you require further information with regard to the issuance of a SIN please visit the HRSDC Web site at: www.hrsdc.gc.ca.

Lt(N) Barnet-Kummer is a JAG officer at CFSU (Europe).

 

Guy. E

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Here is a censored e mail I got from my friends mother after telling her about this issue:

From: "Tweed, Merv - Assistant 1" <TweedM0@parl.gc.ca>
To: <_______________>
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:42:17 -0500
>_________,
>
>Thank you for your email.
>
>Upon checking with Service Canada, they have supplied the following information. Since 1977, any births outside of Canada, the parents should have been issued a citizen card. Since the 9-11 issue, tighter security deemed the card not valid for proof of citizenship. Amendments in 2004 were enacted in April 2005 that now again allows the card to be a valid form of proof. The story in the Toronto paper referred to a 2003 incident, a time when the card was not valid.
>
>Please check to see if you possess a citizenship card for your daughter. If you have any other issues, please feel free to contact me at Mr. Tweed's Brandon office.
>
>Bill Potter, Special Assitant, 726-7600
>
>
>
>From: __________[mailto:_____________]
>Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:00 PM
>To: Tweed, Merv - M.P.
>Subject: please read
>
>
>
>I have a 19 year old daughter born on the same base as this girl and am scared that this situation if not looked at will affect her future plans. Could you please help me to find out what the proper information is and what is required????
>
>This attachment is just a small part of a much bigger problem and story, I hope that you will visit the site and see what challenges many children may be up against in regards to this problem.
>
>http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/26123.30.html
>
> Thank you __________
>

 
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Hello everyone!

I just sent an email to the admin concerning issues logging into your Forum, but had NO problems doing so on my husband's computer, so whomever gets that email can disregard that. As long as I can log in SOMEHOW, I'm happy... thoroughly frustrated at the moment, but happy.

So this is the issue - and how I came to end up joining your Forum was due to an old thread from 2005, which was the ONLY thing I could find pertaining to this. The thread is here: https://army.ca/forums/threads/26123/post-155000.html#msg155000. Ok, so the issue is this: a friend of mine [and neighbour] is trying to get a copy of his birth certificate. Has been getting the run around from various government agencies. Why? Well, this is where it gets interesting and he's NOT the only one. His parents are Canadian, his military father was stationed in Iserlohn, Germany in 1967, his mother gave birth to my friend in a British Military hospital where he was delivered by a Swedish nurse. The thread that I referenced earlier is about a Krista Anderson who was a Canadian citizen, but after 9/11, and is not a Canadian citizen - ironically, Anderson is also my friend name, lol. Anyway, I've been trying to help him and his wife figure out how the heck to get his birth certificate. He desperately needs one in order to renew his Health Card, which he desperately needs to do in order to get a new hearing aid. He has only one ear and 90% hearing loss in his "good" ear. His other ear did not form properly in the womb and the canal is completely blocked.

Now, he's tried calling various agencies and has been getting the run around for decades. "I'm sorry, we can't help you, you need to contact Agency B". "Oh, I don't know why agency A referred you to us, we can't help you, you need to contact agency C", and etc, etc. He gave up trying. Now that his health card is in jeopardy - he still has his Red and White card, this whole run around is starting all over again. Over the passed few days, the following agencies have been contacted:
1. Service Ontario
2. Service Canada
3. the German Embassy in Toronto [my husband's idea]
4. the British Military hospital [since he was born in one]
5. the birth certificate place in Toronto [sorry, the name escapes me right now]
6. our local community centre - they deal with immigration issues, long shot, but worth a try

Agencies  1 - 5 gave the same spiel - "I don't know why you called us, we can't help you. Not our department. Call this other place." Our community centre admitted that his issue was way over their heads and didn't know HOW to help. At least they had the balls to admit it.

So, the multi-million dollar question is: who the heck DOES he call???? Is there any sort of Section 4, paragraph 7.3 in some government handbook that he can quote to say that, yes, it IS YOUR AGENCY that can help and this Section tells me so!!??

In reading that thread that I linked to earlier, the reporter not only does not exist on that site anymore, but the story is GONE. Total 404 error. I was going to try to contact him for advice. I read almost every comment in that thread, so my friend is NOT the only one out there, but what did all those other people DO?!?! I had to laugh out loud at one comment by 2 Cdo, I do believe, who'd suggested stop paying taxes... which my friend said he thought of trying that and made the CRS sort out the BS of proving he exists, lol. He believes they'll get through all the BS red tape, but I told him I didn't think he'd really want to wait in jail for 10 years while they decide to get around to it and sort it all out.

So this is the jist of what's going on with my friend. I've read the forum's TOS's and I'm pretty darn sure I've followed all the rules. To the best of my knowledge, everything I've stated is true and I don't think I messed up any information. I can probably answer most questions I'm asked, and if not, I can run next door and find out. This whole issue has been p***ing ME off and it's not even my fight, but this guy is good people and I've made this my "quest" to try to help him. I even also joined an Iserlohn page in Facebook, lmao. I don't know what's going on half the time - it's in German - but apparently I picked REAL good because after I sent them a message explaining the situation, I found out the page is actually for their City Hall! lmao They were the ones who said to contact the British Military... I DID get something wrong... it was the British Military, NOT the hospital that was contacted as that closed down and is now a women's shelter. There's a website dedicated to it. Pretty cool.

Thanks for those who made it all the way to the end of this post, Kudo's to you!!
StraitJacketMom
 

mariomike

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For reference to the discussion,

Birth Certificates and Citizenship (Merged)
https://army.ca/forums/threads/17749/post-1441953#msg1441953
2 pages.

Birth certificate 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123392/post-1441939/topicseen.html#new

Birth certificate - citizenship 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122009.0

birth certificate 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/82132.0

I sort of somehow lost my birth certificate
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113065.0/nowap.html

Weird and unique situation regarding my birth certificate
http://army.ca/forums/threads/114875.0

Language on Birth Certificate 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17749.0

Military Brats Born Oversea's Not Canadian's?!
https://army.ca/forums/threads/26123.50.html
3 pages.

etc...

 

Blackadder1916

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Info here
https://www.iserlohn.de/rathaus-politik/rathaus/rathaus-online/standesamt/british-military-hospital-bmh/
British Military Hospital (BMH)

For almost 40 years, there was a British Military Hospital (BMH) in Iserlohn.
Since the 1950s, several hundred children of members of the Canadian and British armed forces came into the world at BMH Iserlohn. Their parents were stationed at nearby bases and lived in Iserlohn and the surrounding towns: such as Hemer, Deilinghofen, Soest, Werl, Submit or Dülmen. It was officially closed in 1994th

By law, the birth of a child at a BMH had to be Notified to the local registry office if one of parents was a German citizen. Sometimes the parents registered the birth voluntarily even though Both parents were Canadian and / or British citizens. The Registry Office in Iserlohn keeps all the birth records it has ever registered, even for British and Canadian children.

And follow this link for details on how to request a certificate (if his birth was registered with German authorities).

https://www.iserlohn.de/rathaus-politik/rathaus/rathaus-online/standesamt/british-military-hospital-bmh/certificate-from-the-registry-office/
 
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Thank you for the links,  MarioMike, but having difficulties accessing some of them? Will try again later and if it was just a hiccup and I was just clicking links too quick.

Application - Birth certificate 
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/123392/post-1441939/topicseen.html#new
[not a member, so can't access. Am willing to join if need be]

Q: Will my application not be accepted because of this missing document?

See also,

Birth certificate - citizenship 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122009.0
["The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you." Not sure what this means? Am I too new to access certain things?]

birth certificate 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/82132.0
["The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."]

What happens if you don't show up at St Jean with your birth certificate?
https://army.ca/forums/threads/122316.0
["The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."]

I sort of somehow lost my birth certificate
http://army.ca/forums/threads/113065.0/nowap.html
[got to read that one, not sure if it applies, but will have my friend read it over to see]

Weird and unique situation regarding my birth certificate
http://army.ca/forums/threads/114875.0
["The topic or board you are looking for appears to be either missing or off limits to you."]

Language on Birth Certificate 
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17749.0
[cannot access page due to Google telling me that "Your connection is not private. Attackers might be trying to steal your information from forums.army.ca (for example, passwords, messages, or credit cards). Learn more. NET::ERR_CERT_COMMON_NAME_INVALID". Have NO idea how to get around that. Tried http instead of https, but no luck]

Now that I'm a member here, I would assume I can do more detailed searches and see what else I can find. I'm a total newbie when it comes to looking for information pertaining to Army / Military. With the original thread I'd read being so old, I'd no idea if there were any followup threads. I didn't see any, but I may not have used the right wording in the search to find what I was looking for. Hopefully, once I start poking around and get a better "layout of the land" here, I should be able to find things better. That'll have to wait till the morning, though, as I'm currently on my husbands computer and he'll be getting home from work shortly.

Thanks again, MarioMike!
 
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Blackadder1916 said:
Info here
https://www.iserlohn.de/rathaus-politik/rathaus/rathaus-online/standesamt/british-military-hospital-bmh/
And follow this link for details on how to request a certificate (if his birth was registered with German authorities).

https://www.iserlohn.de/rathaus-politik/rathaus/rathaus-online/standesamt/british-military-hospital-bmh/certificate-from-the-registry-office/
That was the website that the Iserlohn Facebook page referred me to. My friends wife called, and she was told she had to call the German Embassy... who in turn told her she needed to call the British Military... and when she called them back and freaked out, I do believe then they told her to call Service Canada... which is why I'd asked if there was some Section whatever of Some Act that could be quoted to tell them that yes, it IS you that has to help and Section whatever states that by LAW you have to! I was adopted, so I'm used to having to threaten agencies by stating I know my rights and according to the Freedom of Information Act, you have to, BY LAW, tell me what I want to know. Not sure if that would apply here, but there's got to be something.

Why does this have to be so freaking difficult? Canada did not crack down on security in our airports like the States did after 9/11, we still let in terrorists, so why is it so hard to get a flipping birth certificate?!?!?!
 
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