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Mess Kits

Danjanou

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Sparkplugs said:
unless I want the shirt that says, "I'm what happened in Vegas" with an arrow pointing to the belly.  ;D

I vaguely remember some mess dinners I've attended where that would have probably fit in.  8)
 

Sparkplugs

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Danjanou said:
I vaguely remember some mess dinners I've attended where that would have probably fit in.  8)

My favourite part of this post is 'vaguely remember'...  ;D

One more question or two, hopefully this is the last of them.  My CoC has decided on me wearing civilian clothes to the dinner.  The selection of maternity dresses, are very very slim in this area.  Does it have to be floor length, or is a little longer than knee length still appropriate?  My other question is this: My hair -- while wearing civvies, do I have more freedom with it, or is the best idea still to stick with a bun?

Thanks so much, everyone, you've been wonderfully helpful already. 
 
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smale436

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              Regarding the hair, I attend pretty much every mess dinner on the wing I'm at being a musician with the wing band. (I'm not a 871 trade musician) There are a lot of civilian women at various units so I've seen many women in civilian dresses (or sometimes pants) Some were pregnant and some weren't. In any case, many wore their hair down. I'm sure I saw a few with hair up in some form or another but I rarely have seen buns being worn. I'm pretty sure if you are not in uniform that night the hair regulations will not be an issue.
 

Sparkplugs

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CDNAIRFORCE said:
   
              Regarding the hair, I attend pretty much every mess dinner on the wing I'm at being a musician with the wing band. (I'm not a 871 trade musician) There are a lot of civilian women at various units so I've seen many women in civilian dresses (or sometimes pants) Some were pregnant and some weren't. In any case, many wore their hair down. I'm sure I saw a few with hair up in some form or another but I rarely have seen buns being worn. I'm pretty sure if you are not in uniform that night the hair regulations will not be an issue.

Perfect!  Thank you so much for the quick response.
 

Neill McKay

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Sparkplugs said:
The selection of maternity dresses, are very very slim in this area.

Jeez, that's no good, is it?  I'd think you'd want just the opposite...!

Does it have to be floor length, or is a little longer than knee length still appropriate?

I'm not an expert in womens' clothing, but I do attend black-tie events on civvie street from time to time.  It's completely normal to see women wearing dresses as you describe; floor-length gowns are sometimes seen but are not universal by any means.  I would hope that nobody expects a service member (or anyone else) to buy a formal gown in a maternity pattern.  Something tells me it would get about as much use as a prom dress.
 

Sparkplugs

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N. McKay said:
Jeez, that's no good, is it?  I'd think you'd want just the opposite...!

I'm not an expert in womens' clothing, but I do attend black-tie events on civvie street from time to time.  It's completely normal to see women wearing dresses as you describe; floor-length gowns are sometimes seen but are not universal by any means.  I would hope that nobody expects a service member (or anyone else) to buy a formal gown in a maternity pattern.  Something tells me it would get about as much use as a prom dress.

Well, I found one -- apparently, there are a few prom-like floor-length dresses that are built to accommodate women who are big only in the belly -- when I asked the woman at Sears about it, she said that they had a lot of pregnant high school girls looking for prom dresses, so they had to bring some in that would do.  First off,  :eek: , but I'm glad I found one.  It was on a really good sale so I didn't spend a fortune on it -- to be honest, probably less than I would have spent to get my DEU pants tailored, dry cleaned and pressed.  I don't know if I'll ever be able to wear it again, but worse comes to worse, that's why kijiji exists, hahaha, so I can sell my prego prom dress!

Thanks again, all.
 

redseer

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So my wife just got her mess kit back from the tailor, and something was wrong - red shoulder-straps!  So this sent me looking into both the RCA standing orders (SO) and the CF Dress instructions (DI).
The main point of confusion is that the CF dress instructions (pg 256) stipulate that females wear link buttons on their jacket, but the RCA standing orders (pg 104) doesn't mention it.  In fact their pictures don't appear to have the buttons either. 
So does anyone have any experience in this matter, and if so where does someone buy link buttons?

A second and hopefully less serious point is that the DI indicate infantry cuffs vs. RCA SO indicate surgeons cuffs.  I thought that surgeons cuffs meant that there are buttons and the cuff can be opened.

Also, is it common to wear headdress with mess kit if outdoors?  RCA SO states yes...

I'll included the relevant references, if anyone knows the bbc code for spoiler tags so I can shrink it down, that would be appreciated.

Cheers.

Dress Instruction said:
5. Standard Options. The following are standard options for the universal pattern army mess dress (Figures 5B1-3 and 5B1-4). Members of branches/regiments with no authorized differences
from the universal pattern shall wear that pattern and these options:
a. Jacket. The environmental facing colour of midnight blue on collar, shoulder-straps and cuffs. Infantry cuffs. Gold officers’ cuff embellishment. For males, plain jacket front without buttons or button-holes. For females, plain jacket front with single link buttons.
b. Waistcoat/Cummerbund. Midnight blue waistcoat, with four button-holes, for senior officers and above only. During the summer dress period, only a cummerbund is worn.
c. Trousers/Overalls/Skirt. Highcut trousers; overalls optional. Scarlet trouser/overall/skirt
stripe, 4.5 cm (1-3/4 in.) wide along trouser seam and around (half on each side) skirt vent.
d. Footwear. With trousers/overalls, black  socks; black shoes or wellington boots;
wellingtons with overalls; no spurs. With women’s skirt, beige or black plain-pattern nylons; black leather/patent leather pumps.
10. Artillery Branch. Waistcoat for all ranks. White jacket (No. 2A) optional for officers and CWOs
only. Trouser/skirt stripe 4 cm (1-1/2 in.).  Overalls optional, with optional spurs.

RCA Standing Orders said:
2. Artillery Pattern Mess Dress. This Mess Dress (No 2) was authorized in FMC 5250-2 (Comd) 23 October 1986. It is based on the Universal Army pattern which consists of a scarlet jacket with shawl collar, midnight blue trousers and midnight blue waistcoat. Regimental detail is based on facings, collars and cuffs in midnight blue and a broad scarlet stripe on the trousers. Detailed specifications are available from Regimental Headquarters. The Male Mess Dress is illustrated at Figure 16. The Female Mess Dress (with skirt) is at Figure 17. Unless otherwise stated Male and Female orders are the same. Artillery Pattern Mess Dress is as follows:
a. Jacket
(1) Material
(a) Officers/CWO’s - scarlet doeskin; and
(b) NCM’s - scarlet barathea or doeskin.
(2) Design. Buttonless, simple breasted body with shawl lapels and surgeon cuffs;
(3) The colour for lapels, shoulder boards/epaulettes and cuffs is midnight blue (doeskin or barathea to match the material use in the jacket body);
(4) Senior Officers wear crowsfoot sleeve embellishment, Junior Officers and NCM’s do not wear cuff embellishments;
(5) Artillery buttons (26 ligne) are used on the epaulettes only;
(6) Badges, accoutrements and CF rank insignia of gold wire pattern are worn. NCM’s shall wear gold wire insignia with midnight blue backing. Officers shall use single braid available from the supply system. Gold wire grenade collar badges and scarlet backed hazardous skill badges are worn; and
(7) Miniature medals/decorations are worn.
b. Waistcoat is of midnight blue barathea and uses four 20 ligne RCA buttons. During periods of summer dress the Male/Female Artillery cummerbund will be worn instead of the waist coat;
c. Trousers / Skirts
(1) Trousers, overalls, and skirts are of midnight blue barathea. Overalls have a high english back;
(2) The trouser/skirt stripe is 1.5" scarlet barathea. The skirt stripe equally divided along skirt vent; and
(3) Trousers are optional for females.
d. Shirt / blouse
(1) Males. Pleated front, turn down collar and French cuffs;
(2) Females. Blouse white long sleeved with gold buttoned front closure and high collar;
(3) Studs shall be regimental pattern (RCA/RCHA); and
(4) Cufflinks shall be regimental pattern (RCA/RCHA).
e. Bow Tie (Male only) is black, 4.75" in length by 1.5" at the squared ends;
f. Cummerbund – worn during summer dress period. Regimental design is the Red zig-zag on Dark Blue. It is worn positioned to over the waistband of the pants with the closure at the back. The open side of the folds are worn facing upwards.
(1) Females. Smaller size (46cm x 9.5cm). and
(2) Males. Larger size (52.5cm x 14cm);
g. Footwear.
(1) Males. Black socks, and black shoes if wearing trousers. Wellington boots if wearing overalls; and
(2) Females. Plain beige or black nylon stockings and black leather or patent leather pumps with skirt. With optional trousers, same as Male.
h. Spurs. Stainless steel gooseneck spurs are worn with overalls. Spurs are not worn on board HM ships, while dancing, or with straight trousers; and
i. Additional items.
(1) Head dress will be worn (outdoors); and
(2) The service dress raincoat or greatcoat is worn as an outer garment and white gloves as required.
j. White Summer Mess Dress (No 2A). It may be worn as optional summer dress by officers and CWO’s only (see Figure 18).
(1) The jacket is identical in design to the No2 scarlet jacket, Artillery pattern mess dress. The shoulder straps (with 26 ligne Artillery buttons) are white. There are no Facing colours on lapels or cuffs;
(2) An Artillery Male or Female pattern cummerbund will be worn, and the waistcoat shall not be worn with this order of dress;
(3) Miniature medals/decorations are worn, white gloves are not;
(4) Badges, accoutrements and CF rank insignia of gold wire pattern are worn. CWO’s shall wear gold wire insignia with midnight blue backing. Officers shall use single braid available from the supply system.
(5) Gold coloured metal grenade collar badges and miniature (if available) metal hazardous skill badges are worn; and
(6) There are no other changes from No2 Artillery Pattern Mess Dress.
3. The supply cataloguing information for Artillery mess dress cloth is:
Scarlet 8305-21-876-0623 Cloth Tropical, Wool/Polyester 203 g/sq m Scarlet (SP No DCGEM 255-77) Plain Weave. Note that this will, in due course, be replaced by a scarlet superfine english doeskin (650 g/sq m) for officers and either doeskin or a scarlet barathea cloth for NCOs mess dress.
4. No 2B (Mess Service). This is an optional mess dress uniform for wear in preference to No 3 order of service dress on occasions when mess dress would be considered appropriate. This uniform consists of the service dress tunic and trousers with a plain white shirt and black bow tie. Details are available in CFP 265. The following personnel may wear it:
a. Newly commissioned Regular or Reserve Officers during the six months accorded them to obtain mess dress;
b. Officer Cadets; and
c. Non-commissioned members of both Regular and Reserve Forces.
 

jeffb

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redseer said:
Also, is it common to wear headdress with mess kit if outdoors?  RCA SO states yes...
Cheers.

Yes, the standing orders now say that head dress will be worn outdoors. However, I have not yet seen anyone do this and standing orders notwithstanding, I can't imagine it ever happening here at 2 RCHA. Luckily it doesn't mention what the head dress is so if forced to wear head dress, I'm wearing the Yukon Cap in the summer.
 
F

fraserdw

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All requirements for head dress with mess kit were dropped last year in a CC email on the RSM net.
 

2010newbie

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I have seen photos of RCAF mess dress worn with boutonnieres for weddings, but I can't seem to find a reference for it. I have found many US sites that state they are never worn with uniforms, but nothing specific to CDN practice. Is it acceptable to wear a boutonniere with mess kit?
 

Sixrac

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Hi does anyone have an example of an air force CF and mess kit for the health care administrator branch ? I just switched from the artillery as an NCO and now i'm an HCA officer in the air force... (the transfer was faster if i switched to air force). I knew everything i needed to know on my uniforms by experience and I don't fully understand the A-DH-265-000. I need a real picture to help me understand. Thanks
 

mikeninercharlie

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Simple, HCAs assigned the uniform of the blue suited master race wear a gold coloured, winged caduceus above their name tag when in service dress...  While at fancy events, they wear uniform identical to the one pictured with a sanguine cummerbund, scuffed oxfords and a bad attitude as they realize that they could have had a classy red drinking jacket had they waited... Call the Adjutant/RSM of the nearest Fd Amb, they'll sort you out.
 

McG

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Where does the new RCAF mess kit stand on the way to becoming the new Air Force standard?
 

Eye In The Sky

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The new pattern RCAF mess kit is about to be approved AFAIK, in short order (I heard it would be avail in May).  (pic attached of new and current pattern)

HCA would wear the Medical Branch accessories with it.  From the older copy of 265 I was able to get this (which isn't relevant  ^-^), I'd have to look at the current one to verify but:

Medical Branch. Surgeon cuffs. Sanguine
waistcoat for officers andCWOs; female waistcoat
with three buttons/buttonholes. Cherry trouser/skirt
stripe. No gloves.
 

mikeninercharlie

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The spec you have listed are for the army's medical branch, they are not applicable to the current air force mess dress. As for the pic of the new and improved mess dress, I'm not surprised to see that scuffed oxfords are still the standard in the RCAF!
 

dimsum

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jpjohnsn said:
Or, to put it another way, is the RCAF adopting pre-unification RCAF style of stripes above the General's stripe to identify rank?

From what I can tell from the pic, the only major difference between the new RCAF mess kit and the pre-unification one is the shape of the lapels. 
 

George Wallace

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MCG said:
The lack of epaulettes.

The epaulettes are there; embroidered.  Lack of Shoulder Boards/Slippons makes for serious tailoring as one progresses through the ranks.
 

McG

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Embroidered epaulettes are in the picture of the current RCAF mess uniform.  The new/future uniform picture was embedded in the word doc.
 
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