Memorial Cross

[medaid]

After filling out the designate form and leaving it blank I was called 3 times and "reminded" that I had no choice but to put 3 recipients on the sheet of paper.  I kept reminding (first the Cpl, then the MCpl then the WO) them that I do have choices. The Adm O then had me stood to in his office explaining the whole "we die for our family" crap.  I told him that I would prefer to be charged than be forced to put a name down.  The charges were actually researched... more to follow!!

In other words, it's my choice.  I fully understand the ramifications of my actions, but they are MY actions.

Nuff said.

Wow... I can't believe that. Actually... I can. The stupidity of it all, the time and man hours wasted to do what? Infringe on a soldier's personal choice whether or not he or she would like to put down names or not on the form? Unbelievable...

 

[geo]

After filling out the designate form and leaving it blank I was called 3 times and "reminded" that I had no choice but to put 3 recipients on the sheet of paper.  I kept reminding (first the Cpl, then the MCpl then the WO) them that I do have choices. The Adm O then had me stood to in his office explaining the whole "we die for our family" crap.  I told him that I would prefer to be charged than be forced to put a name down.  The charges were actually researched... more to follow!!

In other words, it's my choice.  I fully understand the ramifications of my actions, but they are MY actions.

Nuff said.

Binrat, if that is your position; you should have drawn a line across the 3 lines and clearly indicated that "none" was your choice...that way it would be unequivocaly clear to all that you had no one in mind that should receive the cross, in the event your lights were turned off for you.

 

[Strike]

CSA, it's not really for us to question someone's actions for something as serious as this.  We don't know Binrat's family history.  It could be anything from a serious family conflict to not having any family at all.

 

[X-mo-1979]

I don't really know a whole lot on the memorial cross. However If your child died in the forces (God forbid) and you were still serving,do you wear that medal?Are you forced to?

Man that would be tough.

 

[Reccesoldier]

Binrat, if that is your position; you should have drawn a line across the 3 lines and clearly indicated that "none" was your choice...that way it would be unequivocaly clear to all that you had no one in mind that should receive the cross, in the event your lights were turned off for you.

This, I think is the thing that was not done in all those other cases CSA105 spoke of, and if it were duly noted on the form I do not think the government would have the ability to go to the GG and proceeded with a special order in council.

I'm not saying that this would not end up creating a soup sandwich for the members Unit and Family, but legally the bases aught to be covered.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I don't really know a whole lot on the memorial cross. However If your child died in the forces (God forbid) and you were still serving,do you wear that medal?Are you forced to?

Man that would be tough.

I would be proud to wear it, for the memory of my child's sacrifice.

dileas

tess

 

[Strike]

I see a world of difference between someone with a legitimate concern and someone who wants to flex their "rights of the individual" muscles.  Perception is reality and this post screams "Barrack Room Lawyer" and not "Unique Personal Circumstances".

True, but we all know how posts can be misinterpretted when emotions are doing the typing.  I just prefer to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[X-mo-1979]

I would be proud to wear it, for the memory of my child's sacrifice.

dileas

tess

For sure.

Is there any ruling on this?Do service recipients wear it?

Has to be the hardest thing in the world.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Is there any ruling on this?Do service recipients wear it?

The Memorial Cross is not listed in the order of precedence for Canadian orders, decorations and medals and therefore my assumption is that it is not to be (as stated in the applicable Order in Council) mounted or worn in conjunction with other Canadian honours.

Canadian Orders, Decorations and Medals Directive, 1998  (see also http://www.gg.ca/honours/op/index_e.asp for updated list)

7. The insignia of orders, decorations and medals not listed in this Directive, as well as foreign awards the award of which has not been approved by the Government of Canada, shall not be mounted or worn in conjunction with the orders, decorations and medals listed in this Directive

The Order in Council authorizing the Memorial Cross describes it as "a memento of personal loss and sacrifice" and makes no mention of the method or occasion of wear.

 

[BinRat55]

I don't think you understand the ramifications of your actions.  I really don't.

That's awful pretentious of you, don't you think?  If you don't mind, I think i'd like to be the judge of that.

So when your grieving family members appear...

Not only are you trying to tell me that I don't know what i'm doing, but now you wish to "assume" that I even HAVE family?

Will that be your legacy - you get to make a final shot across the bows of "the system", show the whole chain of command that you are an "individual" and that "you'll decide what you do

Are you serious?? My legacy will NOT be whatever the CF decides for me, but what I have done.  I am the epitome of teamwork - I would not have gotten where I am today without the help of others, and someday I hope to repay those in kind.  When it comes to MY family, MY final wishes - I am an individual.  My team here IS my family.  Do you think for one minute this is a decision I "chose" on my own without discussing it with people whom it affects after the fact?

If you have any respect for the Canadian Forces

You have NO idea, do you?  An "... intractible(sic) desire to demonstrate your mastery over the chain of command ..." - Do you like to hear yourself speak? Use big words?

To me your "personal choice" demonstrates nothing but disrespect for what the Canadian Forces is trying to do to take care of, honour and respect its people and their families.

 
 
You have that right.  You are free to decide for yourself what impressions you are willing to entertain about others - what they write, what they say.  Why don't you extend that courtesy to others? 

I look at your "lead by example" tag line - exactly what kind of leading by example does your behaviour demonstrate?

I give my troops the freedom to stand up for what they believe in.  I have done for people in other countries - stood up for them, I stand up for my subordinates and i'll be damned if i'm not going to stand up for myself.

You want personal choice?  A memo requesting release is an easy personal choice to make - there are no Memorial Crosses on civvy street.  Maybe you can lead by that example.

That's pretty harsh.  All because i've spoke with what little family I have - in GREAT detail, we (as a family) have decided that this is NOT something THEY want and would like to respect their wishes.  When I try to exercise MY right, the CF (whom you say I have no respect for because i'm being selfish) wants to charge me.  The last time I checked, we were still a democracy.  You actually feel that because I don't conform to your way of thinking I should release from the CF??  Wow.  You don't even know me.  Extremist comes to mind here.  Dictator too. 

My 2 dinar

You're entitled.

 

[BinRat55]

CSA, it's not really for us to question someone's actions for something as serious as this.  We don't know Binrat's family history.  It could be anything from a serious family conflict to not having any family at all.

Thank you Strike - this is one of the points i'm trying to make - I shouldn't have to go into painful family problems with my Adm O, let alone my OR clerk.  My decision - no - followed by an "Are you SURE?" would suffice.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Binrat55, you have provided a few details in your post above that would have negated the entire preceding discussion if they had been included in your first post.  Your first post did come across as you simply choosing to take a high road and exercising your choice to not elect recipients.  It did not even suggest that this was based on discussions with family, or that you had given it as much thought as you apparently have.  You emphasis on the personal choice aspect helped to cause the confusion, and because CSA105 had seen the results when there are no elected recipients, all he perceived was another potential crisis, which had previously been the result in similar circumstances.

 

[BinRat55]

Strike, you're right.  But the perception that his post gives is "no one can tell me what to do - ha ha, I showed them, go ahead, let them charge me!".

Perception isn't always correct, is it?

That's a far cry from "For some serious personal reasons I'd rather not elect a Memorial Cross recipient, but my unit is not taking my request seriously."

I SHOULD NOT HAVE TO JUSTIFY THIS!!!

Perception is reality

How on earth is perception reality?  Based on your logic, Chris Angel really CAN fly!!!

and this post screams "Barrack Room Lawyer

And so it should.  I'm losing a fundamental right - the right to choose.

 

[BinRat55]

Binrat55, you have provided a few details in your post above that would have negated the entire preceding discussion if they had been included in your first post.  Your first post did come across as you simply choosing to take a high road and exercising your choice to not elect recipients.  It did not even suggest that this was based on discussions with family, or that you had given it as much thought as you apparently have.  You emphasis on the personal choice aspect helped to cause the confusion, and because CSA105 had seen the results when there are no elected recipients, all he perceived was another potential crisis, which had previously been the result in similar circumstances.

Yes, I can see that, but this is my point - I should not have to justify a personal decision - anywhere, to anyone.  All I meant by my original post was that I did not agree to the CF "forcing" me to do something I did not want to do - for whatever reason.  Yes, there are things I should be forced to do, i'm not oblivious to the fact I am military, but when it comes to family, I should not have to explain my actions. 

Perception is NOT reality...

 

[Michael OLeary]

Yes, I can see that, but this is my point - I should not have to justify a personal decision - anywhere, to anyone. 

Perhaps not, but if your first post had included the words "I have discussed this with my family" or "My family is aware of my decision", we could have skipped the whole issue of the perception that exercising personal choice might be taking precedence over the feelings of surviving family members.  Perception may not be reality, but when facts are unclear or missing, personal experience fills the void to present likely outcomes. No-one needs to know the details, but you could have provided an assurance that you had dealt with this on the family front first.

 

[BinRat55]

Fair enough, i'll give you that - BUT (you knew there was going to be one) what if the only family I had was a crazy uncle Larry who never responds to anyone and brother who is in jail for pedophilia?  I may have left out an opening sentence or two that MAY have drawn a different response (I perceive CSA105 would have been just as cruel) but the retort I DID receive was uncalled for.  My original post was not insulting anyone - CSA105's post DIRECTLY insulted me - he told me to put in my release for God's sake!!!

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

z\

 

[Strike]

So are we all friends again?  ;D

 

[rifleman]

I'd just put your OC's name down.

 

[geo]

Binraqt et all...

As I pointed out earlier, blocking out the lines and clearly indicationg that "NONE" was your own personal choice, the chain of command and everyone else would know, in no uncertain terms that your choice is.... thea "no memorial cross should be issued in your name".  It's simple, it's straightforward and not subject to interpretation... by anyone... family & friends included.