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Medal and Awards Research

Michael OLeary

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Is it this medal?

Army Long Service and Good Conduct Medal

court.jpg


What is the full naming on the medal?

This forum can also help you research it - http://www.britishmedalforum.com//
 

rmc_wannabe

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Thats the one! Pte. Walker J 42ndFoot 628 (I think, will confirm later). Thats awesome to know. Thanks.
 

Blackadder1916

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rmc_wannabe said:
Yes they are both stamped with Rank, name, regimental Numbers and units.
. . .  I've never seen it before in any of the medal charts i've looked at for this era.

You may have missed it because the version you have pre-dates the WW1 era.

Some additional info about it. http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/ls_and_gc.htm
Army Long Service & Good Conduct Medal

The Army Long Service & Good Conduct medal was instituted in 1830. The medal is made from silver and is 36 millimetres in diameter. The medal's ribbon was plain crimson until 1917 when white stripes were added to both edges. As can be imaged, a medal introduced in 1830 has undergone a number of changes. Until 1901 the medal's obverse contained an image of a trophy of arms  with the royal arms in an oval shield in the centre while the reverse side contained the inscription "For Long Service and Good Conduct".

The King William IV issue had the royal coat of arms with the badge of Hanover on the obverse and a small suspension ring with a plain crimson ribbon. The small ring was replaced by a larger version in 1831.

When Queen Victoria succeeded to the throne in 1837, the Hanover emblem was dropped from the medal's obverse. In 1855 a swivelling scroll suspension was introduced, followed in 1874 by small lettering replacing the original large lettering on the reverse side.

In 1901, with the succession of King Edward VI to the throne, the effigy of the reigning sovereign was placed on the medal's obverse. The reverse side remained unchanged.

In 1920 the swivelling scroll suspension was replaced by a fixed suspender.

In 1930 the title of the medals was changed to the Long Service and Good Conduct (Military) Medal. It was also decided to add a fixed suspension bar bearing the text "Regular Army" or the name of a dominion country: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, India or South Africa.

The medal was originally awarded to soldiers of good conduct who had completed 21 years service in the infantry or 24 years in the cavalry. In 1870, this qualifying period was reduced to 18 years for both the infantry and cavalry. During the Second World War, officers could also be awarded this medal if they had completed at least 12 of the 18 years in the ranks. In 1940 clasps for further periods of service were introduced.

The vast majority of LS&GC medals are issued named to the recipient, with the name on the rim around the medal
.

 

Oil Can

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Here is another link you maybe interested in?

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/clients/sub.cfm?source=help/generalfaq

 

2551

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I recently came across a reference to their being a "scale of issue" for decorations.  There was not much info, other than that it was based in part on the number of troops involved.

Does anyone have more information about this?

Thanks.
 

Michael OLeary

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2551 said:
I recently came across a reference to their being a "scale of issue" for decorations.  There was not much info, other than that it was based in part on the number of troops involved.

Does anyone have more information about this?

Thanks.

Can you provide a country and a time period for the reference?
 

Old Sweat

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Mike,

I have seen passing references, all anecdotal, to quotas in the British Commonwealth forces in the Second World War, but have yet to see what I would term a valid primary source. A couple of examples:

a. Bravely into Battle by JL Moulton (sp?). This was a wartime account by the CO of 48 Commando, RM. He mentioned in passing that decorations were made available for various operations. He added there never were enough to recognize everyone who deserved one and he used to keep a private list. My observation is that this suggests that some citations may have been manufactured or embellished, but I have no proof.

b. I read many years ago that at the start of the war the three British services sat down to determine how the gongs were going to be allocated. (Comment: this means that someone had established a policy for decorations.) The RAF managed to sell the idea that it should be based on the proportion between the strengths of the three services. As aircrew formed a very small proportion of the overall air force numbers, this meant that aircrew stood a better chance of receiving a decoration that the fighting members of the other services. Again, I am quoting from memory of something I read at sometime in the past.
 

Old Sweat

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Further to the above, I discussed the system for awards Hugh Halliday, who was researched the subject as it applies to Second World War Commonwealth air forces.

The system in place was delegated to commands and stations and based on awarding one decoration (DSO or DFC for officers and a CGM or DFM for other ranks) per designated number of hours flown per month by aircraft from that command or station. The system also became more liberal as far as Bomber Command was concerned. Anyway, Hugh cited two examples. In the first, Bomber Command had a figure of one decoration per 125 flying hours. Thus if bombers from station A flew 1250 operational hours in a month, then that station could nominate ten individuals for a decoration. Station commanders were encouraged to spread the awards among officers and other ranks and to various members of crews and not just pilots. Just like the army, the nominees had to be alive when recommended and during the time of consideration. If a nominee was killed before the award was approved, then the recommendation was cancelled.

The only other command he mentioned was Coastal Command. In this case the quota was one decoration per 500 hours. As anti-shipping squadrons had much higher casualties than anti-submarine patrol squadrons, it was not unknown for the figure for the former to be lowered to 500 hours from time to time.
 

Servicepub

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2551 said:
I recently came across a reference to their being a "scale of issue" for decorations.  There was not much info, other than that it was based in part on the number of troops involved.

Does anyone have more information about this?

Thanks.
This CMHQ report from 1944 may be of interest to you. http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/his/rep-rap/doc/cmhq/cmhq112.pdf
 

ftsmith

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How long after the medal(s) awarded to a soldier can said medal(s) be claimed by a relative?

or

If a medal is not claimed, how much time elapses before medal is destroyed?

Example: If a Boer War medal was never claimed...

Thx.
 

Old Sweat

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In this thread we have been discussing awards for gallantry or good service. Medals awarded for awar or campaign are a different matter.

Do you have a specific example in mind?
 

Blackadder1916

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ftsmith said:
How long after the medal(s) awarded to a soldier can said medal(s) be claimed by a relative?

or

If a medal is not claimed, how much time elapses before medal is destroyed?

Example: If a Boer War medal was never claimed...

The medal for the Boer War is the Queen's South Africa Medal.

No reference is made to continued administration of honours and awards for the Boer War on any of the sites of the agencies responsible for such; however, they continue to administer awards for WW1.

The following should direct you to someone who can assist if you're attempting to claim an ancestor's medal or answer your question if it is only hypothetical.

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhr-ddhr/nhs-sdh/index-eng.asp
Questions on the administration of war and campaign honours for veterans of the First and Second World Wars and the Korean Conflict (less the Canadian Volunteer Service Medal for Korea, which is managed by the Chancellery) may be addressed to Veterans Affairs Canada, Honours and Awards Section.

http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=collections/cmdp/medals/infomedals
Medals (WW1, WW2, Korea): Army, Navy, RCAF:

Veterans Affairs Canada
Honours & Awards Section
Room 1711, 66 Slater Street
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0P4
Telephone:
Local:995-5003
Toll Free:1-877-995-5003
Fax: 1-613-947-3844


 

Hammer Sandwich

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Some necro-madness...here, (Thanks to the Mods for sticky status).

I'm sitting here, looking at my Grandpa's, (well, I guess my Grandma's), Widow's cross.
It's the make with the EIIR in the middle.

The website, VA/Canada Remembers/....etc.....lists three different "Widow's Medals", all differentiating slightly, with no explanation of the differences.

I'm assuming that the different Crosses are for different periods of service?

My other question is, whom (specifically, if anyone knows), would I go to for paperwork regarding my Grandma's Cross?

Edit.....Shit, I just noticed the 9 lines of contact information Blackadder has at the bottom of the previous post. Some people are as dumb as they look...I am them.

 

armyvern

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Hammer Sandwich said:
Some necro-madness...here, (Thanks to the Mods for sticky status).

I'm sitting here, looking at my Grandpa's, (well, I guess my Grandma's), Widow's cross.
It's the make with the EIIR in the middle.

The website, VA/Canada Remembers/....etc.....lists three different "Widow's Medals", all differentiating slightly, with no explanation of the differences.

I'm assuming that the different Crosses are for different periods of service?

My other question is, whom (specifically, if anyone knows), would I go to for paperwork regarding my Grandma's Cross?

Exactly ...

http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lfwa-dsg/mc.asp

Marking (Cypher)          Commemorating the Dead of    Year Created          Number Awarded
Memorial Cross GR V              The Great War                    1919                              58,500
Memorial Cross GR VI                  WWII                              1940                              32,500
Memorial Cross EIIR            The Korean War                      1950                              500
 

Hammer Sandwich

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Goddamn, you're good, ArmyVern....max Mil's for you!

But, I'm still thinking about contacting VC about the medal itself....(just for clarification).

I'm going through the transcripts I have right now, and my Grandpa's ticket home was by grenade near Vlijen, Holland....looks like fall of 1944.

But Grandpa's first wounding I'm sure was France, in summer 1941....(I just wish the stuff I have was a little better organized).

But I digress....

My Grandpa was finished by 1945....,and lived until 2006 and Grandma was awarded the "EIRR" Cross in 2007.

There was no "Sgt. Peter Worobec" serving in Korea.

This is what totally befuddles me.
 

armyvern

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That site has some good links on it; there's one to an online forum etc.
 

armyvern

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Hammer Sandwich said:
Goddamn, you're good, ArmyVern....max Mil's for you!

But, I'm still thinking about contacting VC about the medal itself....(just for clarification).

I'm going through the transcripts I have right now, and my Grandpa's ticket home was by grenade near Vlijen, Holland....looks like fall of 1944.

But Grandpa's first wounding I'm sure was France, in summer 1941....(I just wish the stuff I have was a little better organized).

But I digress....

My Grandpa was finished by 1945....,and lived until 2006 and Grandma was awarded the "EIRR" Cross in 2007.

There was no "Sgt. Peter Worobec" serving in Korea.

This is what totally befuddles me.

The memorial Cross is not awarded for "wounds", but rather is awarded for KIA.

EIIR means: HRH Queen Elizabeth II

GR V means: King George V

And King George VI.

It is ciphered based upon the Monarch at the time of the War, for WWII, that was George VI. But, HRH came to the throne in 1952 and the ciphre would have changed to hers at that point in time and will remain in effect until her death.

I wasn't aware that they were awarded for deaths occuring after the War ... but perhaps the case is that your grandfather's death was ruled to be caused by the injuries he sustained in that War??
 

Hammer Sandwich

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[quote
I wasn't aware that they were awarded for deaths occuring after the War ... but perhaps the case is that your grandfather's death was ruled to be caused by the injuries he sustained in that War??
[/quote]

Exactly the case....only 60 yrs later.


I'm in no way out to disrespect my Grandpa,  or his memory, or the fellas he served with, but in light of what I've been reading "RE:  Current Veteran's Affairs", I'm getting a bit confused.

I'm starting to get more than a little P.O.'d about the Guys & Gals coming back 7 shades of F>cked up, with less support than I have seen for my Grandpa....

but that's for another thread.
 
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