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Meanwhile back at the perpetually offended tent/Infidel tattoo questions

brihard

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Flipping back to the 1995 version of the dress instructions...

"9. Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing.
Members shall not acquire visible tattoos that could
be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic,
blasphemous, racist) or otherwise reflect discredit on
the CF."

That paragraph has continued pretty much identically since then. You'd have to be kinda dumb to think than an 'Infidel' tattoo in the shape of a rifle isn't going to cross that threshold.

Amidst all the whining about SJWs, snowflakes, and the perpetually offended and so on and so forth, has individual accountability and common sense stopped being a thing in the CAF?
 

211RadOp

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The current one (dated 2017-12-15) says:

9.Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing. As of September 26th, 2012, members are not to acquire any tattoos that are visible on the head, face or ears. Additionally, members shall not acquire tattoos that are visible either in military uniform or in civilian clothing that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design) or otherwise reflect discredit on the CAF.
 

brihard

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211RadOp said:
The current one (dated 2017-12-15) says:

9.Body Tattoos and Body-Piercing. As of September 26th, 2012, members are not to acquire any tattoos that are visible on the head, face or ears. Additionally, members shall not acquire tattoos that are visible either in military uniform or in civilian clothing that could be deemed to be offensive (e.g., pornographic, blasphemous, racist or containing vulgar language or design) or otherwise reflect discredit on the CAF.

Yup... So the only real difference is 'visible in uniform'... Which this was.
 

mariomike

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For reference to the discussion,

Tattoo Thread - including current policy [MERGED]
https://navy.ca/forums/threads/869.575
25 pages.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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"deemed to be"  Who doesn't love being put into a Orwellian scenario??

Something is offensive or it isn't,  if it takes debate to figure it out then it isn't, it's simple opinion.
99.9 % of us would spot, and agree, on offensive with zero debate whatsoever.


And since I think every tattoo put on human skin is offensive I got a lot of ratting out to do ..... ;D
 

mariomike

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Bruce Monkhouse said:
"deemed to be" 

It says,

could be deemed to be offensive

Could be to some, not to others.

Brihard said:
You'd have to be kinda dumb to think than an 'Infidel' tattoo in the shape of a rifle isn't going to cross that threshold.

Have to wait for the results of the chain of command investigation,

Update:

CORRECTION, June 6, 2019, 1:30 PM. I was just contacted by Major Gough who told me the following. “I just realized I misspoke when I said we identified the sailor. We have not yet identified the sailor, but the chain of command is still investigating the matter.”
https://nsadvocate.org/2019/06/05/news-brief-halifax-navy-sailor-with-islamophobic-tattoo-now-being-investigated/






 

Fishbone Jones

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So, if a definition of 'infidel' is the absence of religion, how hateful and offensive would it be to have a crucifix tattoo, a Star of David a crescent and star tattoo? Do they get a buy because they are organised religions.

Infidel, by definition sounds no different than athiest, by the same definition. Simply, no belief in religion.

Nobody appears to deem it offensive when a muslim calls a christian an infidel or kuffar. Do we demand that they remove the words apostate, kuffar and infidel from the Koran and their speech?

When we are called infidels, out of hate, the best way to take the power from the word is to make it your own. We have turned it into a source of acceptance and humour. Since the word has become mainstream, on t-shirts, hats, moral patches, whatever, the sting has been taken away. The word has lost its power for us and those that use it hatefully.

Well, except for some Timmy customer.

I am not throwing out my T-shirts, nor do I intend to take a flame thrower to the English language to satisfy someone being uncomfortable with words.
 

ModlrMike

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You're not looking at it through an Orwellian lens.
 

BeyondTheNow

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Can we please stop skirting the fact that it’s not so much the word, in and of itself, that is causing the issue *all on its own* and/or what the definition of it is. It’s the fact that it’s written in combination with being the shape of an automatic rifle.

I personally don’t care one way or the other, but I’m not the one who placed a complaint, so whatever...

...But I’m pretty sure that if someone did the same thing using the word Gentile (which simply means ‘not Jewish’, so isn’t offensive at all, but in combination with other imagery ppl could take offence) it would still cause some raised eyebrows. And any number of other words when combined with guns could achieve the same reaction from some.

No one knows what the outcome of the “investigation” will be, but something of that nature (the word “Infidel” printed in the shape of a firearm) is open to interpretation, and maybe that’s simply exactly what the individual wanted to have happen.

Stop trying to state that there’s absolutely zero reason for anyone to question it. We all know what the ink guidelines/policies are for CAF members and if something is towing the line in some fashion and it gets noticed, well, then that’s on the host to explain.
 

Jarnhamar

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Is infidel a word only followers of Islam are allowed to use?

If an Islam practitioner uses it then they're pious, if I use it I'm Islamophobic?

I'm pretty sure the origins of Infidel is Christianity, am I wrong?


Why is infidel in the shape of a gun considered racist and Islamophobic?
 

TCM621

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Jarnhamar said:
Is infidel a word only followers of Islam are allowed to use?

If an Islam practitioner uses it then they're pious, if I use it I'm Islamophobic?

I'm pretty sure the origins of Infidel is Christianity, am I wrong?


Why is infidel in the shape of a gun considered racist and Islamophobic?

It is derived from the Latin infidelis which simply means not faithful. Over time, it had become a word lobbied at anyone who doesn't share what you consider the true faith. The Arabic is Kafir. Muslims have a bunch of different types of infidels like Dahriya(athiest) and Murtad (apostate). To call someone a takfir seems to be like calling someone a heretic.

Why it is racist and Islamophobic? Because it is 2019, I guess? It very well be an expression of hatred of Muslims but there is no reason it has to be.
 

Colin Parkinson

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I can't ever recall a Christian using it to describe others, generally they say: Non-believer, non-Christian, agnostic or Atheist depending on the other persons position.
 

OldSolduer

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There was a T-shirt I wanted in 2006 that was similar to a well known sports logo that said “Major League Infidel”. It was discontinued so as to not offend the Afghans.
 

Cloud Cover

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Colin P said:
I can't ever recall a Christian using it to describe others, generally they say: Non-believer, non-Christian, agnostic or Atheist depending on the other persons position.
Godless heathens? Commie. Timbit.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Actually few Christians ever disparage non-believers in front of me. I don't doubt there are some, but in general they are far more polite than the Atheists are about Christians.
 

Navy_Pete

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Colin P said:
Actually few Christians ever disparage non-believers in front of me. I don't doubt there are some, but in general they are far more polite than the Atheists are about Christians.

I think it depends on the Christians you hang around with.  I've personally been told I was a godless heathen that was going to hell by a Christian, and a number of similar insults along that vein by other so called Christians.  They weren't even particularly the fire and brimstone type, but those are probably the worst examples.

My personal observation is that people that are generally pretty strident about criticizing your belief frequently stray far from the actual beliefs of their faith (such as the Beattitudes). That seems to be independent of the religion, so more of a human behaviour thing I guess. But you only really remember the small number of arseclowns that you had a bad interaction with, and not the thousands of times where nothing really happened. 
 

Harris

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daftandbarmy said:
I assume that, as we speak, there are legal defence teams scanning the internet for photos of Senior Officers in the CAF wearing the (almost) ubiquitous 'Infidel' morale patch on their combat uniforms...

Getting a list of everyone who bought these would likely help: http://www.cpgear.com/search/results?query=infidel&commit=search
 

mariomike

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Harris said:
Getting a list of everyone who bought these would likely help: http://www.cpgear.com/search/results?query=infidel&commit=search

I like the "optional velcro" part. :)
 

Crockett

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Colin P said:
I can't ever recall a Christian using it to describe others, generally they say: Non-believer, non-Christian, agnostic or Atheist depending on the other persons position.
In memory of my late grandmother, I'd like to add heathen to the list, it was her favourite.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

 

FSTO

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Why do reporters screw themselves when they make stupid comments like "tattoo in the shape of an AK47 Assault Rifle. These idiots wouldn't know an AK if someone butt stroke him.

About the tattoo on its own? Much ado about nothing to me.

In fact, how about we get rid of all religion from the CAF? It would be interesting to hear the responses to this from all corners of the political spectrum.
 
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