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ME VS. OUTCAP

trigger324

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First of all, I’ve looked far and wide on here for an answer to the question I’m about to ask, and this one, I can’t see to have been answered. So if it has, I'll say sorry I missed it. But I hope someone who works specifically with OT’s or with a personal experience with one of their own might know and can tell me.

I’m well through the process for an OT this year—the PSO interviewer told me it would be sent it along with a very good recommendation.  Now, I guess, all I’m waiting for is to hopefully be selected in the new occupation.  The deadline 01 December of which “they” go through all the applications is coming up soon and my file is “there”.  I’m coming from a red trade with an outcap for this year of 2 and applying to another red trade.  I would think that at some point someone in my current trade(I assume the career manager) gives the ok based on that outcap that I can be spared, and then the board selects me if I’m still suitable and advises the new occupation to take it from there…

So, what I’m trying to establish is, am I “cleared” out of my current trade at this point, or will I be prior to and at what point does that happen?  With that, where exactly does the red condition affect my application?  Also, are outcaps strictly adhered to?( I hear sometimes they aren’t…and yes, I’m highly aware of the rumour mill)
 

Biohazardxj

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To put it in the simplest terms.  If the losing CM says yes and the gain CM says yes then you will be officially notified that your OT has been accepted and you will then be given instruction on what to do next.  If either CM says no then you will be officially notified that your OT has been denied and you will be invited to try again next year.

Yes, I have seen people allowed to OT into and out of RED trades.  Usually there is extenuating circumstances though.
 

trigger324

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SGT-RMSCLK said:
To put it in the simplest terms.  If the losing CM says yes and the gain CM says yes then you will be officially notified that your OT has been accepted and you will then be given instruction on what to do next.  If either CM says no then you will be officially notified that your OT has been denied and you will be invited to try again next year.

Yes, I have seen people allowed to OT into and out of RED trades.  Usually there is extenuating circumstances though.


right, that much i understand, what i'm having a hard time finding out is WHEN does an applicant get "cleared out"(for lack of a better term) of their current trade?  for example, when his/her file application is being looked at by the selection board, are they already at the point where they've been given a green light out...it is that point i'm trying to determine if i'm at already.  hope that makes sense...


what kind of  circumstances might qualify as extenuating?
 

Biohazardxj

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You will remain in your current trade until you get a message or letter from Ottawa stating that you have been accepted into the new trade.  It that message it will state where you are to go to and when.    For example, lets say you are a cook in Victoria who want to OT to RMS Clerk.  One of four things could happen if your OT is approved:

1.  You could go directly to Borden and start your RMS QL3 (assuming a crse is about to start and there is a spot for you)
2.  You could go to Borden and be put in holding platoon such as PRETC until a crse becomes available.
3.  You could stay in Victoria as a Cook until a RMS QL3 becomes avail.
4.  You could stay in Victoria and do OJT as a RMS Clerk until a crse becomes avail.

Regardless of the scenario, you will stop being a cook on the effective date that will be stated in the message.  So, until you get accepted and receive the message from Ottawa you will remain in your current trade.   
 

trigger324

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thanks for the replies sgt-rmsclk, your description is bang on and exactly how i understand things move wrt one who is approaching COMPLETING the transfer, and anyone who might be wondering the process can't help but understand it now, with how this is written, but, you're slightly ahead of me in the process.  i'm back at the point where: everything's done BUT the board's message that's telling me that both CM's are ok with the OT.  the info i still seek is this:  i confidently don't think the gaining red trade won't make it happen IF the losing trade will.  so, at what point does my request come to HIS attention, and he looks at our numbers and gives a go ahead.  or in other words, does the selection board, as of 01 dec, already know that the losing cm is fine with permitting me out based on that outcap of 2?  and then, they combine that and a positive pso recommendation and draft the message(among other things) to advise me of the process as you've written in your last reply?
 

trigger324

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i've had no further replies on my question in the last couple weeks and it still remains unanswered. so i'll post this and bring it out front again. does anyone have any input?  much appreciated, thanks.
 

captloadie

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For red trades (where an outcap applies), what normally happens is all files that are forwarded from the PSO go to the career manager at or about the same time they go to the other selection boards. He/she will hold a board with all the files of the applicants requesting out of the trade. Much like a promotion board, a line is drawn at or about the cap. Everyone above the line who is deemed acceptable in a new trade is allowed out, everyone below the line can reapply next year. I had a Cmbt Eng who applied to OT into Tfc Tech, and was accepted at the Tfc Tech board. Unfortunately, the trade was only letting 4 members out, and they were number 6. The five individuals ahead of them were also all accecpted into the new trades, so they weren't allowed to OT.

Best of luck, and I'd suggest having your CoC contact your CM to ask about how/when they are determing who is allowed to OT.

 

trigger324

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thanks loadie, that is the info i was looking for, i knew there had to be a point where this happened. mind you, it's not exactly what i want to hear in that it tells me i just might not make it "out" and i'd hate to think i was picked and then "un"picked after this being my 4th year of applying.

now, to get the coc involved.  i have my cm interview along about that time, i wonder if i should just wait.

thanks again
 

trigger324

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captloadie said:
...a line is drawn at or about the cap. Everyone above the line who is deemed acceptable in a new trade is allowed out, everyone below the line can reapply next year.


is there any type of criteria regarding what constitutes this line? and what determines being above it or below it? ie. who applied first?  rank?  the gaining trade's need? etc.
 

trigger324

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and do red trades ever let more people go than the fy outcap they have on paper?
 

meni0n

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Yes  they do. When I told the CM that I was OTing and mentioned that there is a 8 person CAP for out he told me not to worry as they won`t keep anyone against their will especially if they will make a bigger contribution in the other trade than in their current one.
 

trigger324

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meni0n said:
Yes  they do. When I told the CM that I was OTing and mentioned that there is a 8 person CAP for out he told me not to worry as they won`t keep anyone against their will especially if they will make a bigger contribution in the other trade than in their current one.


against their will?  turns out, this isn't the case...no ot for me AGAIN this year.  that's 4 now.  or else someone doesn't think i will make a bigger contribution... :mad:
 

Eye In The Sky

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I don't believe all of the messages are out for VOT yet this year for COTP.  Usually they send out X amount, wait to see if people accept/deny the offer, then do the next batch.  I could be wrong but its not time to throw in the towel yet...
 
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