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Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

Maxman1

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Unfortunately we are down to 27 Cyclones when the contract wraps up due to the loss of one last year. So unless it’s replaced we are already down one before we even had 28.

Maybe we should consider something new to (eventually) replace it and the Cormorant. There's been some new helicopters developed since the Cyclone was supposed to be delivered, like the AW149, AW159 Wildcat and Bell 525 Relentless.
 

Czech_pivo

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A major sticking point to all of the discussions being held above regarding the replacing the MCDV's is the simple, undeniable fact that we do not have the ability to build any more ships here in Canada with the 3 yards (if you include Davie in the mix) currently part of the NSS.

I'm of the belief that Davie is sooner or later going to be brought more and more into the NSS, either to build the 2 CCG AOPS, as well one of the two polar icebreakers, or, building the polar ice breaker and some of the CSC's, or even possibly another converted Astrix and one of the polar icebreakers. This is on top of their existing ice breaker conversions they have ongoing.

Let's say Davie is given the nod to build 6-10-12 replacements for the MCDV's, When could this be slotted into their delivery schedule? Where is Davie going to get the additional human resources? Irving spent considered time/effort touring Europe for skilled naval tradesmen (yes I said men), in Belfast, throughout the UK, Romania, Poland, etc, with somewhat limited success. Where in Europe is Davie going to recruit for French speaking Ville de Quebec? Sully from Belfast isn't going and neither is Pavel from Poland. That leaves only France and maybe Belgium, though I'm not aware of any large scale french speaking Wallon shipbuilding yards. Davie is going to have a hard time in find large numbers of skilled naval tradesmen.

The only other option is we bring in Heddle, who has teamed with with Seaspan, to build these ships on the Great Lakes. It almost comes full circle to my previous tongue in cheek post of building subs in Windsor and using autoworkers to build them and float them down the Detroit River, through the Welland Canal and out the St. Lawrence, except in this case its out of work steel workers in Hamilton and out of work autoworkers from St. Catherines but still sailing the ship across L. Ontario and out the St. Lawrence.

Or these ships are built overseas, can anyone say Gowinds from DCN in France after Trudeau sits down with Marcon?
 

Colin Parkinson

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No more Griffons. Let's upgrade to big boy helicopters, UH-1Y Venom, and AH-1Z Viper.
You will note that these helicopters would belong to the Government of Canada and would be leased along with crews. slightly more expensive but solves a lot of current issues and is inline with what CCG does and our allies do for non-combat helicopters.
 

GR66

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A major sticking point to all of the discussions being held above regarding the replacing the MCDV's is the simple, undeniable fact that we do not have the ability to build any more ships here in Canada with the 3 yards (if you include Davie in the mix) currently part of the NSS.
Yeah, it would be a real shame if we ended up having so much shipyard work to in effect have a permanent flow of government ships coming out of multiple Canadian yards
 

KevinB

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You will note that these helicopters would belong to the Government of Canada and would be leased along with crews. slightly more expensive but solves a lot of current issues and is inline with what CCG does and our allies do for non-combat helicopters.
The difference is most the Allies have a bunch of combat Helicopters... the CF does not
 

Colin Parkinson

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A major sticking point to all of the discussions being held above regarding the replacing the MCDV's is the simple, undeniable fact that we do not have the ability to build any more ships here in Canada with the 3 yards (if you include Davie in the mix) currently part of the NSS.

I'm of the belief that Davie is sooner or later going to be brought more and more into the NSS, either to build the 2 CCG AOPS, as well one of the two polar icebreakers, or, building the polar ice breaker and some of the CSC's, or even possibly another converted Astrix and one of the polar icebreakers. This is on top of their existing ice breaker conversions they have ongoing.

Let's say Davie is given the nod to build 6-10-12 replacements for the MCDV's, When could this be slotted into their delivery schedule? Where is Davie going to get the additional human resources? Irving spent considered time/effort touring Europe for skilled naval tradesmen (yes I said men), in Belfast, throughout the UK, Romania, Poland, etc, with somewhat limited success. Where in Europe is Davie going to recruit for French speaking Ville de Quebec? Sully from Belfast isn't going and neither is Pavel from Poland. That leaves only France and maybe Belgium, though I'm not aware of any large scale french speaking Wallon shipbuilding yards. Davie is going to have a hard time in find large numbers of skilled naval tradesmen.

The only other option is we bring in Heddle, who has teamed with with Seaspan, to build these ships on the Great Lakes. It almost comes full circle to my previous tongue in cheek post of building subs in Windsor and using autoworkers to build them and float them down the Detroit River, through the Welland Canal and out the St. Lawrence, except in this case its out of work steel workers in Hamilton and out of work autoworkers from St. Catherines but still sailing the ship across L. Ontario and out the St. Lawrence.

Or these ships are built overseas, can anyone say Gowinds from DCN in France after Trudeau sits down with Marcon?
The Two CCG AOP's were always filler ships to keep Irving happy, they are not really going to be what the CCG needs without significant modification. See that big hatch on the 1100's, there is a deep hold with a between deck for stores, chains, anchors and extra buoys. That helps keep the well deck clear for hoisting, clean operations.


 

Stoker

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A major sticking point to all of the discussions being held above regarding the replacing the MCDV's is the simple, undeniable fact that we do not have the ability to build any more ships here in Canada with the 3 yards (if you include Davie in the mix) currently part of the NSS.

I'm of the belief that Davie is sooner or later going to be brought more and more into the NSS, either to build the 2 CCG AOPS, as well one of the two polar icebreakers, or, building the polar ice breaker and some of the CSC's, or even possibly another converted Astrix and one of the polar icebreakers. This is on top of their existing ice breaker conversions they have ongoing.

Let's say Davie is given the nod to build 6-10-12 replacements for the MCDV's, When could this be slotted into their delivery schedule? Where is Davie going to get the additional human resources? Irving spent considered time/effort touring Europe for skilled naval tradesmen (yes I said men), in Belfast, throughout the UK, Romania, Poland, etc, with somewhat limited success. Where in Europe is Davie going to recruit for French speaking Ville de Quebec? Sully from Belfast isn't going and neither is Pavel from Poland. That leaves only France and maybe Belgium, though I'm not aware of any large scale french speaking Wallon shipbuilding yards. Davie is going to have a hard time in find large numbers of skilled naval tradesmen.

The only other option is we bring in Heddle, who has teamed with with Seaspan, to build these ships on the Great Lakes. It almost comes full circle to my previous tongue in cheek post of building subs in Windsor and using autoworkers to build them and float them down the Detroit River, through the Welland Canal and out the St. Lawrence, except in this case its out of work steel workers in Hamilton and out of work autoworkers from St. Catherines but still sailing the ship across L. Ontario and out the St. Lawrence.

Or these ships are built overseas, can anyone say Gowinds from DCN in France after Trudeau sits down with Marcon?

There should be any belief, the government already said they are building one of the Polar ice breakers and more than likely other CG ships as well. Not everyone at Davie speaks French there sport. They will never build the CSC unless you want to add billions to the cost and that comes straight from Ottawa.
Any MCDV replacement will more than likely be built in 10 to 15 years. These ships are going to be basic and simple as they should be.
 

Czech_pivo

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There should be any belief, the government already said they are building one of the Polar ice breakers and more than likely other CG ships as well. Not everyone at Davie speaks French there sport. They will never build the CSC unless you want to add billions to the cost and that comes straight from Ottawa.
Any MCDV replacement will more than likely be built in 10 to 15 years. These ships are going to be basic and simple as they should be.
I’m well aware that a significant portion of the management folks don’t speak French - but the average welder, fitter, electrician speaks French and the language spoken among the small work units will be in French.
As someone who has lived/worked in Belgium, Holland, Czech Republic and in a number of places in the US, I can tell you that it takes a different kind of person to pick up and move to another country where you don’t speak the language. It’s on a whole new level to pick up your family and move school aged kids to another country where they don’t speak the language and will have limited social actives available to them in English. Ville de Quebec is not Montreal.
Building them in 10-15yrs still means that Irving and Seaspan is off the table, circling us back to either Davie or another new yard is added to the mix.
Or, again they are built offshore as part of some France or other Euro-country political shenanigans.
 

Stoker

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I’m well aware that a significant portion of the management folks don’t speak French - but the average welder, fitter, electrician speaks French and the language spoken among the small work units will be in French.
As someone who has lived/worked in Belgium, Holland, Czech Republic and in a number of places in the US, I can tell you that it takes a different kind of person to pick up and move to another country where you don’t speak the language. It’s on a whole new level to pick up your family and move school aged kids to another country where they don’t speak the language and will have limited social actives available to them in English. Ville de Quebec is not Montreal.
Building them in 10-15yrs still means that Irving and Seaspan is off the table, circling us back to either Davie or another new yard is added to the mix.
Or, again they are built offshore as part of some France or other Euro-country political shenanigans.
Unless Irving builds another yard, they are looking buying DND property across Halifax Harbour.....
 

Uzlu

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Or, again they are built offshore as part of some France or other Euro-country political shenanigans.
I doubt very much the Kingston-class replacements are going to be built in a foreign country. And I doubt very much the two modified Harry DeWolfs are going to be built by Davie. If the two modified Harry DeWolfs are going to be built, they will very likely be built by Irving and not any other shipbuilder, especially not Davie. There is a great amount of hatred between Irving and Davie.
 

Czech_pivo

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Unless Irving builds another yard, they are looking buying DND property across Halifax Harbour.....
Nice, now will they ‘buy’ it or be given some sort of 10-20yr forgivable lease to own scheme with vague promises of adding to the local economy.
But, in the end if it adds significant capacity and capability to their facility it can be a good thing.
 

Stoker

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Nice, now will they ‘buy’ it or be given some sort of 10-20yr forgivable lease to own scheme with vague promises of adding to the local economy.
But, in the end if it adds significant capacity and capability to their facility it can be a good thing.
So what? did the money expressively come out of your pocket.? The forgivable loan is probably the best investment the government of NS ever had for the rebuilding of the yard in Halifax, if they get a few dollars to build another facility its money well spent.
 

Halifax Tar

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So what? did the money expressively come out of your pocket.? The forgivable loan is probably the best investment the government of NS ever had for the rebuilding of the yard in Halifax, if they get a few dollars to build another facility its money well spent.

That's your opinion.
 

Halifax Tar

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I'm not interested in investing in NS. I'm interested in getting what the Navy needs. If we can help a province out along the fine, but that should be a spin off effect not the goal.
 

Stoker

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I'm not interested in investing in NS. I'm interested in getting what the Navy needs. If we can help a province out along the fine, but that should be a spin off effect not the goal.
Someone is going to get the economic benefits, and I'm good with NS getting them.
 

daftandbarmy

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I'm not interested in investing in NS. I'm interested in getting what the Navy needs. If we can help a province out along the fine, but that should be a spin off effect not the goal.

What, no pork barrel politics?

You don't get the Federal Government in Canada, do you? :)
 

Colin Parkinson

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I will add that the MCDV replacements are not that big and that opens a lot of yards to the competition. Likely Irving or Seaspan would subcontract out the builds or a good chunk of it to other yards.
 

Uzlu

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I will add that the MCDV replacements are not that big and that opens a lot of yards to the competition. Likely Irving or Seaspan would subcontract out the builds or a good chunk of it to other yards.
Irving and Seaspan already have enough. Let Heddle and Davie have a piece of the action, especially Heddle.
 
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