Majority of Canadians not interested in joining the CAF

[daftandbarmy]

My sister loved that posting so much she retired there.

The military turned her from a hard pavement case into a real countrywoman.

Sometimes, you have to give new places and people a chance. You'll get that in the CAF.
Not all jobs offer a change of scenery. Sometimes, it does a person good.

Sounds kind of like Stockholm syndrome

 

[Quirky]

CAF is short 10k, how many could be filled if the applicable % of 10m people had the option to serve without the guarantee of being posted no where near their friends and family

We are short way more than 10k.

 

[btrudy]

I think the survey is also quite subjective.

In a boom / bust economy, things like stability, pension and benefits are either desirable, or not so much.

Sure, a 22 year old in the current job climate can afford to be a bit "picky", because there is a high demand for workers, even those with little or no skill. The economy will ebb and flow however, and some of those private sector employers may find that perks aren't easy to maintain, or offer quite as readily.

I think the CAF does a poor job of promoting the fact that an unskilled worker ( PTE-R), will not only be trained at no cost, but will also be paid and fed while that occurs. Pay rates have grown substantially in the recent past, and qualified candidates are certainly offered compensation that is competitive.

We're likely going to see a shift to candidates coming in the way they used to...from rural areas, and those who don't have the opportunities available to them either due to geography, or economic circumstance.

The problem with focusing on messaging like this is that it really only hits the recruitment side, but doesn't help us keep people once they're in.

Especially in a boom / bust cycle, what happens then is that we get a lot of people during the "bust" part of the cycle, we spend a lot of money to train them up, and then they all leave for people who'll pay better and won't force them to go bankrupt trying to live in Ottawa or Kingston or Victoria on a Cpl's salary once we swing back to the "boom" portion of the cycle.

Personally I wasn't talking about rural/urban as the geographical issue, moreso the simple proximity to "home." The vast majority of the Quebec population is within 3 hours of Valcartier. What percentage of Ontarians are within 3 hours of Pet?

CAF is short 10k, how many could be filled if the applicable % of 10m people had the option to serve without the guarantee of being posted no where near their friends and family

I do like this approach, although implementation would require a bit basically spreading people thinner. A larger number of smaller bases scattered around.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Then there's this 'Elephant in the Room', of course

 

[Bluebulldog]

Then there's this 'Elephant in the Room', of course

Not wrong...

 

[IKnowNothing]

We are short way more than 10k.

I suppose a January article is 4 months out of date now, and it did say "more than 10k"... my bad

I do like this approach, although implementation would require a bit basically spreading people thinner. A larger number of smaller bases scattered around.

Not even.

• Make more even use of the bases that already exist
• balance need for training space against background population to redistribute units (in a functional manner) to have more opportunities close to people
• lengthen the time that someone can serve without being posted out
• run subordinate regionalized recruiting campaigns based on regional needs

Career members willing to live the military life and post throughout the country are still going to be the backbone of the CAF, but would it be so terrible to enable more Canadians to be the meat on those bones in a manner that they are willing?

 

[Brad Sallows]

CAF is too small to be spreading stuff around. A three-brigade army only needs about 3 bases. Our navy only needs 1 major port on each coast. Air force - 3? Maybe add a few (very few) more establishments as training centres, including Res F support. Those numbers will be stretched (stuff will be parceled out) to suit political exigencies, but it's a starting point.

Cost of housing outweighs "I'd like to live closer to X". The people who say that are unlikely to have other employment prospects that would allow them to live closer to "X" anyways. Best we can hope for is outskirts of cities and major metropolitan areas. Some stuff has to be well away from populated areas. These days, people will move in next to a railway and bitch about the noise.

 

[dimsum]

Air force - 3?

Not if we want to maintain SAR posture.

These days, people will move in next to a railway and bitch about the noise.

That's not a new thing. Ask anyone who has had to field angry phone calls to Wing Ops about aircraft noise, when the airport has been there longer than most of those houses.

 

[IKnowNothing]

Cost of housing outweighs "I'd like to live closer to X". The people who say that are unlikely to have other employment prospects that would allow them to live closer to "X" anyways. Best we can hope for is outskirts of cities and major metropolitan areas. Some stuff has to be well away from populated areas. These days, people will move in next to a railway and bitch about the noise.

The currently employed, currently living in Southwestern Ontario population of Southwestern Ontario that have no desire to move out East, or to the Prairies, despite the clearly beneficial Delta in cost of housing begs to differ.

25-30% of the Canadian population already lives in X.

 

[Brad Sallows]

So we lost the British mantra of "join, see the world" and substituted "join, see more of your own backyard". Can't even manage "join, see more of your own country".

 

[IKnowNothing]

So we lost the British mantra of "join, see the world" and substituted "join, see more of your own backyard". Can't even manage "join, see more of your own country".

"See the world/country" =/= "move to Petawawa, seeing family and friends is reserved for special occasions"

Stationing people in god foresaken places like Meaford

People from the GTA are flocking to Dundalk of all places

 

[Halifax Tar]

So we lost the British mantra of "join, see the world" and substituted "join, see more of your own backyard". Can't even manage "join, see more of your own country".

Travel and deployments are one thing.

Stationing people in god foresaken places like Meaford, Quebec or Shilo is another.

We need to recruit for the time period we're in not the one that it used to be. Adapt or die mon ami.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Not if we want to maintain SAR posture.

Which can be contracted out.... just sayin'

 

[dapaterson]

Stationing people in god foresaken places like Meaford, Quebec or Shilo is another.

I'll agree with two of three; Quebec City is magnificent.

 

[dimsum]

Stationing people in god foresaken places like Meaford, Quebec or Shilo is another.

Haven't been to Meaford itself in many decades, but friends from GTA moved to Collingwood (30 min drive away). From what I can tell they really like it.

And I'll agree with @dapaterson about Quebec City. It is amazing - yes you have to learn French, but is that really all that different than a first-generation immigrant* coming from a country where English/French aren't first languages?

* My parents had to improve their English pretty drastically when they moved to Canada

 

[Good2Golf]

The issue is that the CAF sold itself for years as a career with a pension as a carrot. With new demographic for whom a long career or a pension is not what drives them, we’re not attracting as many people as we could. We need to market ourselves in many different ways to appeal for many different types of people, not just those that want a full 25-year career. Once people are in, we need progressively better incentives to keep them in.

Even reverting back to 20 year immediate annuity would be an improvement. The 25-year change was even then a day late and a dollar short for a trend well passed. ADM(HR)Mil/CMP for the un-win…

 

[dimsum]

Even reverting back to 20 year immediate annuity would be an improvement. The 25-year change was even then a day late and a dollar short for a trend well passed. ADM(HR)Mil/CMP for the un-win…

Why was it changed to 25?

 

[dapaterson]

(A) Retention

(B) Cost

(C) Both

 

[Good2Golf]

(A) Retention

(B) Cost

(C) Both

A) statistically proven to have failed

B) false savings trying spread out service-life cycle pers costs at unrealistically low assumed release rates…only ‘saving grace’ is that because the CAF is >10% short, there are unintended cost savings with not having a large as force as is required

C) yup, double-barreled miss…

 

[Blackadder1916]

Why was it changed to 25?

If you can believe . . .

From the Minister (actually, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Defence)

Debates (Hansard) No. 128 - September 26, 2003 (37-2) - House of Commons of Canada

Debates (Hansard) No. 128 - September 26, 2003 (37-2) - House of Commons of Canada

www.ourcommons.ca

From DGCB

Evidence - NDVA (37-2) - No. 37 - House of Commons of Canada

Evidence - NDVA (37-2) - No. 37 - House of Commons of Canada

www.ourcommons.ca