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Legal Officer Recruiting [Merged]

Frank_B

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I'm starting law school this year, and am interested in a military law career. I was told by my brother (a reservist) that I may be able to article with the Canadian Forces, although after doing some research it appears not. I was wondering if anyone could give a definitive answer.

Thanks.
 

ModlrMike

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You'll have to ask recruiting for the definitive answer, of course.

My recollection is that you need to have been admitted to the bar to be recruited as a legal officer. There may be a programme similar to MOTP that applies to Legal Officer aspirants, but I don't recall ever seeing it. If there is, this might be a better option than completing law school on your own dime.
 

hobgoblin

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I have a family member in the army, and he's advised me that it's a good way to go about my education and career.
I'm 19 years old, heading into a Bachelor of Arts program this fall. I will likely be majoring in political science, and my dream goal is to go to law school and become a lawyer. I get great grades and have a lot of motivation, so it is a definite possibility for me. However, there doesn't seem to be a lot of information on the internet about recruitment in regards to that sort of plan.

This appears to be a bit of a snag though

"The Canadian Forces subsidize university education leading to the following officer jobs:
Aerospace Control Officer
Aerospace Engineering Officer
Air Combat Systems Officer
Armour Officer
Artillery Officer
Communications and Electronics Engineering (Air) Officer
Construction Engineering Officer
Dental Officer
Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Officer
Engineer Officer
Health Care Administration Officer
Infantry Officer
Intelligence Officer
Logistics Officer
Marine Systems Engineering Officer
Maritime Surface and Sub-Surface Officer
Medical Officer
Military Police Officer
Naval Combat Systems Engineering Officer
Nursing Officer
Personnel Selection Officer
Pharmacy Officer
Physiotherapy Officer
Pilot
Public Affairs Officer
Signals Officer
Social Work Officer"

Does this mean that I couldn't be a legal officer through the army? At least, not until I have completely gone through a civilian education? Because I can't see them allowing me to join as an undergraduate, and then leave for law school for 3 years. I am under the impression that I would be expected to go into service as soon as I complete my first degree.

Can anybody clear this up for me before I get too invested in the idea of applying?
 

Occam

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Stacked said:
You do something called LOTP (Legal Officer Training Program) Which I believe you need a Bachelors, and have proof you've been accepted to a school for Law.  Once you have those two things you go to the CFRC.

That's about all I know...  Somebody else can give you the finer details if needed.

I've never heard of that program.

To the best of my knowledge (and according to the recruiting website), you already have to be a lawyer admitted to the Bar in a Canadian province in order to get into the CF as a Legal Officer.

There is the MLTP (Military Legal Training Plan) for already-serving officers who qualify, but that's not an entrance program for the CF.
 
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Hi guys, I'm just looking into things I can do with my JD degree once I finish it and came across this http://www.forces.ca/en/job/legalofficer-64#video-0. It looks like a really exciting career path, but I have a few questions about it before I get my hopes up.

-I have never served in the military before, and that recruitment site says that legal officers start as captains. That's a pretty high rank, are they just going to let me be a captain right up the bat if I'm coming with a JD, or would I have to work my way up, doing something else first before I can be promoted to legal officer.
-It says you have to pass certain physical requirements. I'm about 5'5.5", just under 5'6" and have flat feet, for which I wear orthotics. However, I have an extensive martial arts background, can run for miles without getting tired, and can easily do sets 100+ push ups and 30+ chin ups. Do you think they would let the height and feet slide if I get a letter from my MMA coach testifying that I'm perfectly capable of completing basic training? I mean, this IS a non-combat position after all, so it shouldn't matter THAT much, one would think.
-What's supply and demand like for legal officers? Are they looking for people, or are they turning down hundreds of applicants for that position?
 

canada94

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The Thirst Mutilator said:
Hi guys, I'm just looking into things I can do with my JD degree once I finish it and came across this http://www.forces.ca/en/job/legalofficer-64#video-0. It looks like a really exciting career path, but I have a few questions about it before I get my hopes up.

-I have never served in the military before, and that recruitment site says that legal officers start as captains. That's a pretty high rank, are they just going to let me be a captain right up the bat if I'm coming with a JD, or would I have to work my way up, doing something else first before I can be promoted to legal officer.
-It says you have to pass certain physical requirements. I'm about 5'5.5", just under 5'6" and have flat feet, for which I wear orthotics. However, I have an extensive martial arts background, can run for miles without getting tired, and can easily do sets 100+ push ups and 30+ chin ups. Do you think they would let the height and feet slide if I get a letter from my MMA coach testifying that I'm perfectly capable of completing basic training? I mean, this IS a non-combat position after all, so it shouldn't matter THAT much, one would think.
-What's supply and demand like for legal officers? Are they looking for people, or are they turning down hundreds of applicants for that position?

Hi there!

For all the rank question's I am no help. However for the height and flat feet problem I can help! Your height does not matter first off, and second I have flat feet myself. Although I am not in the Forces I was selected during a Reserve recruiting process by a regiment and my flat feet did not come up as a problem whatsoever. I'm also sure you would not be the first person ever to complete BMQ/BMOQ with flat feet! You say you can run miles and miles anyways.. I also can't answer the need for Legal Officers, however it never hurts to throw in an application and try your best.

Good luck!

Mike
 

PMedMoe

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The Thirst Mutilator said:
if I get a letter from my MMA coach testifying that I'm perfectly capable of completing basic training?

Is your MMA coach a doctor?  If not, then no.

The Thirst Mutilator said:
I mean, this IS a non-combat position after all, so it shouldn't matter THAT much, one would think.

Not so, we have had JAGs (legal officers) deploy.  Besides, we have this thing called universality of service......

I would suggest a search of the site.
 

Blackadder1916

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The Thirst Mutilator said:
. . . . . . . recruitment site says that legal officers start as captains. That's a pretty high rank, are they just going to let me be a captain right up the bat if I'm coming with a JD  . . . . . . .

While the responsibility that comes with the rank of Captain may be significant (depending on the occupation of the holder, the position he is filling, the trust placed in him by his commander . . . ), it is not a "pretty high rank".  It is actually the working rank for most officers - unless one has royally screwed up or is dumber than dirt, just about everyone holding the Queen's Commission will be promoted to Captain after 3-4 years.  Generally, all the occupations that require a "professional degree" and a license to practice start as Captains. (e.g. physicians, dentists, pharmacists, social workers, physiotherapists, lawyers . . . the only "licensed" occupation that doesn't start as Captain is nurse)

. . . . .
-What's supply and demand like for legal officers? Are they looking for people, or are they turning down hundreds of applicants for that position?

I can't speak specifically as to this as I am not a lawyer and retired form the CF years ago, however I am acquainted with a number of legal officers.  From what I gather from them, there are usually openings for qualified lawyers, but not many.  When they talk about a "qualified lawyer", they mean someone who is already called to the bar and preferably has either some (significant?) legal or military experience.
 

medicineman

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I do have to ask something...JD degree?  That the same as an Bachelor of Law?  Never heard a law degree described that way that's all.

As for the medical, unless you suffer from dwarfism, your height isn't a big deal.  You might need a letter from your family physician as to why you're using orthotics, but flat feet aren't a big deal as long as it's not the result of fallen arches.  Your MMA coach doesn't count as far as attesting to your fitness to serve.

MM
 

BKells

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I'm an NCM in the reserves, have been in for 8 years, served in Kandahar on Roto 6, been PMC for 2 years, etc.

I've read about the MLTP program for officers already serving to attend law school and become a legal O. Does this program extend to someone in my situation? If I go to the CFRC with my acceptance letter to a Canadian law school, what sort of options are available?

Cheers.
 

ModlrMike

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I believe the plan applies to the Regular Force only. I could be wrong.
 

dapaterson

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Yes, MLTP is an in-service selection program for Regular Force officers.
 

oldboy12

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so I'm a Canadian lawyer in his mid 30s. I would like to know what my chances are. I did not do particularly well in law school, and did not work for big law firms. what are my chances?
 

ModlrMike

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If you've passed the bar and completed your articles then you should be good to go. Visit a recruiting center and find out. There is at least one JAG who lurks here, so I'll leave the specifics to him.
 

The_Falcon

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Legal Officer is one of the few occupations out there were the selection is ultimately made by a panel of experience Legal Officers, CFRC just handles the admin duties.  Unless thing have changed since Nov, part of this panel selection is a face to face interview in front of this panel.  I am getting the feeling from your post that you are seeking the CF as an option of last resort (if I am wrong so be it).  If that is the case I suggest you move on.  Beyond the basic eligibility criteria for this occupation, no one here nor at your local CFRC will be able to tell you what your chances are, as the decision is made by third parties. 
 

Scott

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Not to be a dink or anything, but who cares what your chances are? You either apply or you do not.

I really do not get these threads. I can understand the ones where dude is a triple amputee who just smoked a fat bowl and has epilepsy - there's real stuff to discuss there, but this? :dunno:
 

The_Falcon

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Scott said:
Not to be a dink or anything, but who cares what your chances are? You either apply or you do not.

This 8)  I am constantly amazed and a little saddened by how timid people are, and basically afraid of failure or rejection, that they ask anonymous stranger for advice on whether they are suitable or what their chances are for xyz.  You want to know if you are suitable for something whether it be burger flipper or door kicker, ultimately you need to man/woman up and just friggen apply, if things work out great.  If not, oh well move on, it's that simple.

Example, I wanted to go for Close Protection.  You know what I did, I workout out like a man possessed, did the PT and applied.  First time, my PT scores weren't high enough, although I did pass.  So I double my PT efforts got a higher score, and went to selection, and managed to last 4 days before I mentally broke.  But you know what I got my answer on whether I was suitable or not.

My current job with ISAF, I applied on a whim, not even remotely thinking I was going to get the job, in fact several months past before I got an interview invite, which I ultimately passed, and a few month later, here I am. 

The take away is, you wanna know, then stop pontificating and just bloody apply (and not just you OP, but the general you for all the navel gazers on this forum), you will get your answer.   
 

GAP

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yeah, but when they fail even the CFAT, once, then twice.....I notice a tendency to blame anything but themselves...
 

The_Falcon

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GAP said:
yeah, but when they fail even the CFAT, once, then twice.....I notice a tendency to blame anything but themselves...

Of course growing up and never having to experience failure and loss (due to half baked hippy logic that infects our education system) means a person never has to take responsibility.  Thankfully I had a few old curmugedly politically incorrect teachers who didn't give a damn about that hippy crap, and had no issues telling you your shortcomings, in fairly blunt language.
 
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