RPAS (was JUSTAS): the project to buy armed Medium Altitude Long Endurance (MALE) UAVs

[George Wallace]

Just a point:  Canada, as far as I know has no intentions in buying Drones.  Not now, in the future, or even in the recent past. 

We are looking at UAVs that are RPVs, not Drones. 

 

[MarkOttawa]

A post at The Torch:

UAVS: A story in search of fuss
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2008/09/uavs-story-in-search-of-fuss.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Ammo]

Looks like the project is wide open to what the CF will eventually acquire.
According to MERX:
Project JUSTAS Procurement of a UAV System
The Canadian Forces has a requirement to field and support interoperable, networkenabled Unmanned Aerial Vehicle (UAV) Systems to provide Intelligence, Surveillance, Reconnaissance (ISR), Target Acquisition, and all-weather precision strike capabilities in support of Canadian Forces (CF) operations worldwide. The objective of this Letter of Interest (LOI) is to advise industry of the forthcoming requirement and also to request
feedback from Industry on the feasibility of currently defined project strategies with respect to scope, technical performance, schedule, and cost.

Industry is highly encouraged to offer alternatives to the project strategies outlined in this LOI. These alternatives should be accompanied by comprehensive arguments and analysis that clearly demonstrates how the proposed solution to the operational requirement is more advantageous to Canada with regard to
operational suitability and effectiveness, cost, schedule, and risk. Information received from Industry will be used to refine JUSTAS planning documents and cost tables in advance of Cabinet and Treasury Board approval.

Here is the link: http://www.merx.com/English/SUPPLIER_Menu.Asp?WCE=Show&TAB=1&PORTAL=MERX&State=7&id=PW-%24ATP-003-17562&FED_ONLY=0&hcode=3k5HS9FF5cf8vel%2fYsrQOg%3d%3d

 

[geo]

The development and use of UAVs in theatre has grown exponentialy.
What we want out of the system now VS what we wanted out of the system then (2002) are two entirely different beasts.
The 250$MM investment represents our learning curve... it wasn't a waste

 

[Deep Blue]

Hopefully the UAV's will always be overhead watching out for the troops for as long as we can it is a good feeling knowing they are there

 

[thunderchild]

I'm new to the Idea of uav's in the Arctic but I'm not sure about something,  If we patrol the Arctic with UAV's that are unarmed armed would international law still recognize our ability to defend it or remove our rights there?  or am I way out there.

 

[aesop081]

way out there.

 

[thunderchild]

Thanks glad to hear it

 

[MarkOttawa]

As CDN Aviator said there are serious problems with satellite communications in the far north.  There are also icing issues and poor instrument landing capabilities (visibility is an obvious constraint in the north).  As someone with knowledge said, we should remember that current large US UAVs were originally mainly designed and tested by people in the sunny American west/southwest and largely honed for use in desert-like climates.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[thunderchild]

good point doy you think that there are any that could fit the bill?

 

[thunderchild]

According to the Canada fist defence policy the government plans to acquire 10-15 MPA if seen a budget of $2.5 billion but that seems kind of low to me.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

According to the Canada fist defence policy the government plans to acquire 10-15 MPA if seen a budget of $2.5 billion but that seems kind of low to me.

Considering we really don't know what the capabilities of said aircraft will be how do you know the numbers are too low. More capable platforms usually mean less numbers.

 

[thunderchild]

I don't this is what CASR said.

 

[George Wallace]

I don't this is what CASR said.

Gee Kid!  Do you believe everything you read?  Have you read anything on Communism or Socialism?  Great ideas on paper.  They just don't work too well in real life.

 

[aesop081]

I don't this is what CASR said.

Thats the best you can come up with ?

You said that the number from DND seems low, how about you tell us why you think that instead of regurgitating CASR or Wiki......

:

 

[thunderchild]

Ive been slammed for this before but this is what I think,  I agree that number does seem low for what is in effect a 3 areas of operations. 1 Atlantic, 2 Pacific and 3rd the Arctic.  Currently we have 18 airframes (CP-140) for the Atlantic and pacific plus foreign deployments. Of those maybe 10 may be available for use?  Assuming 18 airframes was enough for 2 coasts then it would seem to me that 27 airframes with 3 spares would make sense assuming that what the government buys is as good as the CP-140 or better.  I will not comment on UAV's as I just don't know enough about how their sensors work but I do see them as very necessary simply because of their potential  loiter time.

 

[aesop081]

Assuming 18 airframes was enough for 2 coasts

I'm not going to argue numbers with you but i just want to point out one thing. The CP-140 has always worked all 3 coasts, so i dont know where you are getting this idea that it only operates Atlantic and Pacific.

 

[MarkOttawa]

It's also important to keep in mind that for most of the year there isn't exactly much surface shipping in the high north, so very little need to patrol for it.  The third coast is by far the least important for surveillance purposes and will stay so for some time to come. 

Mark
Ottawa

 

[daftandbarmy]

Ive been slammed for this before but this is what I think,  I agree that number does seem low for what is in effect a 3 areas of operations. 1 Atlantic, 2 Pacific and 3rd the Arctic.  Currently we have 18 airframes (CP-140) for the Atlantic and pacific plus foreign deployments. Of those maybe 10 may be available for use?  Assuming 18 airframes was enough for 2 coasts then it would seem to me that 27 airframes with 3 spares would make sense assuming that what the government buys is as good as the CP-140 or better.  I will not comment on UAV's as I just don't know enough about how their sensors work but I do see them as very necessary simply because of their potential  loiter time.

Nice to see you demonstrating full confidence in the effectiveness of our security arrangements on the 49th parallel  ;D

 

[Greymatters]

Nice to see you demonstrating full confidence in the effectiveness of our security arrangements on the 49th parallel  ;D 

Physical security, or economic security?  Cant say Im confident in either at the moment...