"JTF-2 Commandos were ready to swoop"

[AIC_2K5]

JTF-2 assaulters on alert to take out terrorist training camp:
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=039eea20-67f8-4647-8277-9597dc7dd816

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

and...?

 

[nULL]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149630613356&call_pageid=968332188492

I hate to post and run, but having been closely following the news in the past several days, I can't help but feel a tad smug that my initial impressions were shared by this journalist. I'm not going to  go so far as to claim that the whole thing was done for the sake of bolstering Harper's government, but I do wonder if the seriousness of the incident was blown out of proportion; perhaps it's little wonder that such a high-level resource as the JTF was not utilized to its full extent. 

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Whenever there is suspected terrorists its NEVER overblown when you attempt to reel them in.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1149630613356&call_pageid=968332188492

I hate to post and run, but having been closely following the news in the past several days, I can't help but feel a tad smug that my initial impressions were shared by this journalist. I'm not going to  go so far as to claim that the whole thing was done for the sake of bolstering Harper's government, but I do wonder if the seriousness of the incident was blown out of proportion; perhaps it's little wonder that such a high-level resource as the JTF was not utilized to its full extent. 

Second-rate or not, I think it does us good to remind us of the potential threats. I can only guess there are guys worse than this "out there". Then again, publicizing these guys so heavily may only prove to be an incentive to recruiting elsewhere - "if they can do it, why can't we?" kind of a deal.

 

[HItorMiss]

nULL

you know of course that JTF2 would have been on stand by just on the basis of armed groups are sometimes to much for Cops the handle even the really trained ones and so JTF2 is that last resort 911 for the Police if it were to get out of hand?

Plus just for informations sake, JTF2 is always on stand by for something the amount of ramp up time just differs, this isn't even news really just media sensationalism to use a cool name and sell papers and a story.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

+1

 

[jonsey]

nULL

you know of course that JTF2 would have been on stand by just on the basis of armed groups are sometimes to much for Cops the handle even the really trained ones and so JTF2 is that last resort 911 for the Police if it were to get out of hand?

Isn't that what SWAT/ERT (or whatever acronym the Toronto guys use) is for, to provide a specially traned force, utilizing more militaristic methods and equipment, for situations where normal police aren't trained/equipped for?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Yes.  However even they have limits.

 

[HItorMiss]

Say for instance you have a group of people, that have in someway gotten a hold of a lot of weapons they shouldn't have...like very high powered carbine rifles, or even assault rifles and some explosives, now the ERT/SWAT cops assault the building and take serious heavy fire in return and are forced to pull back. When you have reached that level of escalation the only way to go is up and when your talking these types of operations the only up from there is JTF2. They would be the the sledgehammer the smart bomb of the whole thing, they would hit the building and they would clear it...difference oh about a demolished house and all suspect dead.

 

[KevinB]

JTF-2 is a National Level of Importance (NLI) reaction.

If you can pick these guys up with plain clothes people with no fuss no muss - you do it.  IF it comes down to an incident were the bad guy have to be taken down or else, then the varsity from the Hill go in.

 

[nULL]

Say for instance you have a group of people, that have in someway gotten a hold of a lot of weapons they shouldn't have...like very high powered carbine rifles, or even assault rifles and some explosives, now the ERT/SWAT cops assault the building and take serious heavy fire in return and are forced to pull back. When you have reached that level of escalation the only way to go is up and when your talking these types of operations the only up from there is JTF2. They would be the the sledgehammer the smart bomb of the whole thing, they would hit the building and they would clear it...difference oh about a demolished house and all suspect dead.

Certainly, a higher level of resources go into training a commando as opposed to a member of a police tactical team; seeing as how the latter cannot perform the specialized skills of the former, from a practical standpoint - why not let specialized police units alone handle such a situation? After all, I'd imagine that the potential to conduct such operations would have weighed favourably on their decision to volunteer for such duties.

I know this is going to sound cruel and callous; believe me, it's not meant to. But replacing a member of the JTF would certainly be a taller order than replacing two local cops.

 

[Old Sweat]

It may be a blinding statement of the obvious to state that JTF2 has skills and capabilities far beyond that of most police ERTs. Furthermore the story referred to the possibility of employment of the unit near the Washago training area - a forested site. Woods clearing would have been way out of the lane for police who tend to concentrate on resolving domestic or low level criminal hostage incidents. While we will never know, the commitment of JTF2 would have come as an unpleasant surprise to these wannabe jihadists.

 

[KevinB]

FWIW - Old Sweat :
ALL Cdn Police ERT/Tac teams -- unless there are ones that shoot 50k+ rounds a year and have an intenational training base/cadre that I missed...

HitorMiss -- your scenario is incorrect in regardless to the deployment of JTF and other CF assets
FWIW portions of 1 CER and 1VP where stood too for the incident that claimed the lives of the 4 RCMP in Maerthorpe.

The OPP tend to do a lot of wooded area tactical operations BTW.

The IR Squadron is a NLI asset -- you dont waste it on domestic policing IF you dont have to...

 

[HItorMiss]

I6

Yes your right my scenario is a bit off kilter as to the how's and whys of their being deployed inside Canada, I was trying to convey a hypothetical in terms of the difference in approach more so then the actual why.

And I fully accept that not being a member of that unit I could and very well maybe right our of er.

 

[jwsteele]

I agree with all that is being said, but I think the police tactical teams would have been utilized if possible, but if the situation deteriorated into a firefight in the woods then JTF-2 would be called.  I thought the primary difference between police tactical teams and JTF-2 was that the police team are trained to save lives instead of being well trained killers that can obliterate a group of armed resistance.

 

[Thompson_JM]

I agree with all that is being said, but I think the police tactical teams would have been utilized if possible, but if the situation deteriorated into a firefight in the woods then JTF-2 would be called.  I thought the primary difference between police tactical teams and JTF-2 was that the police team are trained to save lives instead of being well trained killers that can obliterate a group of armed resistance.

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Any questions?

FWIW Im not going to comment on how JTF-2 might be deployed within canada to assist the RCMP or Local ETF/ERT/TRU Teams because I dont have a frickin clue, and anything i say is going to be pure speculation.... maybe some of it might be true but thats luck, not knowlege...

Cheers.

 

[paracowboy]

Here is your Lane >>>>      /  |   \                       
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Any questions?

beautiful. Sheer art.

 

[Thompson_JM]

beautiful. Sheer art.

Thank You Para, Its a Labour of love  ;D

 

[Trinity]

I was half way through a reply to this thread earlier today.

And then erased it.. cause I knew I was speculating.

Nice Thompson....  glad to see I made the right choice