Joshua Boyle/Caitlan Coleman, AFG hostages, 2012-2017

[Good2Golf]

Hard not to draw conclusions from that list of charges.


Legal question. If his wife makes accusations against him about their time in Pakistan (say, similar to what he's charged with now) could be face additional charges under the Canadian court system or is it inadmissible because it happened in another country?

I'm not sure about the Canadian Criminal Code, but for some Canadian legislation, illegal acts committed outside Canada are considered the same as if committed inside Canada and the penalties/punishment would be assessed similarly: for example: Canadian Corruption of Foreign Public Officials Act - CFPOA (Bill C-45) states:

Offence committed outside Canada
5 (1) Every person who commits an act or omission outside Canada that, if committed in Canada, would constitute an offence under section 3 or 4 — or a conspiracy to commit, an attempt to commit, being an accessory after the fact in relation to, or any counselling in relation to, an offence under that section — is deemed to have committed that act or omission in Canada if the person is
(a) a Canadian citizen;
(b) a permanent resident as defined in subsection 2(1) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act who, after the commission of the act or omission, is present in Canada; or
(c) a public body, corporation, society, company, firm or partnership that is incorporated, formed or otherwise organized under the laws of Canada or a province.

Jurisdiction
(2) If a person is alleged to have committed an act or omission that is deemed to have been committed in Canada under subsection (1), proceedings for an offence in respect of that act or omission may, whether or not that person is in Canada, be commenced in any territorial division in Canada. The person may be tried and punished for that offence as if the offence had been committed in that territorial division.

I recall that the National Defence Act held CAF members accountable to the CCC even whilst deployed abroad, not sure about external applicability of the CCC to civilians - perhaps some better versed on the CCC's provisions for out-of-country criminal acts could weigh in?

Regards
G2G

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The general rule for criminal law is that it applies to people within the country's jurisdiction, unless it specifically states that it applies either to the country's citizen wherever they may be or to anyone wherever they may be (very rare and usually kept for prosecution of crimes against humanity if you get your hands on them - meant to eliminate as much as possible the possibility of sanctuary).

That's why the NDA's Code of Service Discipline is made to apply everywhere in the world for those subject to it and includes all Canadian criminal law by reference (Section 120 still?). Moreover , it was the reason why anyone working oversea for the Canadian military and dependents living on oversea bases (such as Lahr or Baden-Solingen in the old days) were made subject to the CSD.

 

[Journeyman]

With both Boyle's wife and brother saying he needs mental health help, I'm cynically curious how efficient the system will be in his case (you know, as compared to veterans).
    op:

 

[Rifleman62]

Poetry works, F-35's don't.

 

[Rifleman62]

"It is alleged the offences happened in Ottawa between Oct. 14 and Dec. 30."  The attached photo was taken on 19 Dec 17 - strange world we live in.

 

[Rifleman62]

A comment from SDA:http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/2018/01/what-the-actual-1.html#comments

From the Ottawa Sun: Caitlan Boyle slid letters under everyone’s door asking if they’d be willing to let the Boyles share their internet."

“She said they were only here temporarily so we’re hoping to be able to use someone’s Wi-Fi,” Aubé said.

http://ottawasun.com/news/local-news/former-hostage-joshua-boyle-charged-with-sex-assault-forcible-confinement/wcm/bde678a9-9427-4be1-b87b-d71fd5be6226

No, no. Nothing unusual about asking your neighbours to use their wifi. Why would the Boyles be concerned about having their internet traffic surveiled by CISIS when they're surely amongst the bestest, most loyal of Canadians?

Nifty trick having all your internet searches and communications routed through compliant neighbours systems - offering plausible deniability.

 

[angus555]

:facepalm:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Thanks G2G.





I think a half-asleep interrogator would be able to pick apart the Boyle-Colman story pretty easy. I don't think our government wants to risk a different version of the truth though.

They probably wanted to borrow the internet to plan their next hike in Syria.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Jarnhamar: There is no such thing as "versions" of the truth.

There is THE truth, what is known, what you can prove and then, spin. But there is only one truth  even if no one can figure out what it is. 

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

The sad part is the PM Selfie will have learned nothing from this.

The fact a large portion of our population voted for his great hair and empty head, is one hell of an indictment of our culture.

 

[a_majoor]

It will be interesting to see how this is "spun" or if the media simply "memory holes" the story. The entire thing was pretty smelly right from the start, but apparently we are supposed to take the story of the trip and kidnapping at face value. I can only hope that the security services are doing very detailed analysis of whatever information they were able to gather, and keeping a close eye on these people, but *we* are supposed to close our eyes and not question.

The farther this story deviates from the "narrative" of poor, misunderstood people caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and the larger narrative of "rehabilitating" returning Jihadis, the more embarrassing it is going to become for the government, and I suspect the end result will be a media blackout.

 

[Rifleman62]

Extract from my (CPC) MP's Letter today:

In late December, media were made aware of what they described as a "secret meeting" that occurred between Prime Minister Trudeau and Joshua Boyle. Joshua Boyle was recently freed after being held in captivity in Afghanistan for the previous five years.

Why media were suspicious of this particular meeting was due to the fact that the meeting, and the reasons for it, were not publicly disclosed by the Prime Minister’s Office (PMO).

Journalists only discovered this meeting had occurred when members of the Boyle family circulated pictures on social media.

As a result of this situation there are serious questions being asked on why the Prime Minister requested a meeting with Mr. Boyle. By extension questions have been raised on security protocols that should protect the Prime Minister. The judgement of the advisers who represent Mr.Trudeau in allowing this meeting to go forward also come into focus.

 

[Jarnhamar]

It will be interesting to see how this is "spun" or if the media simply "memory holes" the story.

PTSD and mental health issues that try and paint Boyle as the victim with Harper and the Conservatives being blamed for not rescuing the family sooner. 

 

[ModlrMike]

Are you still a hostage if no ransom demand is made?

 

[dapaterson]

Interesting article at Macleans:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/what-really-happened-to-joshua-boyle-and-his-family/

 

[medicineman]

Interesting article at Macleans:

http://www.macleans.ca/news/world/what-really-happened-to-joshua-boyle-and-his-family/

Just read that - even the reporter thinks the guy is kinda sketchy...

MM

 

[jollyjacktar]

I don't trust a word he says.  There's something wrong about him and his wife.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The Globe and Mail is reporting that the government (Global Affairs Canada) hired a NGO to help the Boyle family readjust after their release. Nothing wrong with that ... we (Canada) haven't had much experience with returned hostages, after all.

But I am perplexed by what appears (from what little we know) to be the "cloud" around Mr Boyle and his family ... some people seem to have tried to sound some alarms, or did they? Are some people just now trying to make 20/20 hindsight into insightful analysis?

At the time I thought that Mr Boyle was a naive fool for going where he did, and that his wife was even dumber for going along. I hope I was right ... but as MJP reminds us, hope is not a valid COA.

If he was something other than a naive fool then what in hell was he doing in the prime minister's office for a photo-op? Was some PR agent trying to engineer a 'narrative' in which someone like a returned Da'esh/ISIL/ISIS terrorist is turned around and made a positive force because he met Saint Mr Justin Trudeau?

 

[Jarnhamar]

I'm really curious about that secret meeting the PM had with him.  It's strange considering the Liberals penchant to splash the PM over social media and inundate us with pictures of him.

Today was a wonderful experience for my family, and Ma'idah Grace Makepeace seemed truly enamoured. Incidentally, not our first meeting with @JustinTrudeau, that was '06 in Toronto over other common interests, haha.

I bet.

 

[Remius]

If he was something other than a naive fool then what in hell was he doing in the prime minister's office for a photo-op? Was some PR agent trying to engineer a 'narrative' in which someone like a returned Da'esh/ISIL/ISIS terrorist is turned around and made a positive force because he met Saint Mr Justin Trudeau?

I think it was more of a case of an out of touch PR agent falling for a narrative.  Likely some staffer(s) with a good idea fairy wand that did little to no (poor) research other that the few media lines they may have read.  Just as likely is a another more senior or experienced PR agent only catching it after the meeting (too late) was had and nixed the whole PR thing knowing the shyte storm it might cause which would explain the lack of any release from the PMO.  I doubt it was a secret meeting or that kind of nonsense.  Just a blunder they'd hope would go away and not see the light of day.  Damage done though.