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Is it time for Direct Democracy to make a comeback?

RangerRay said:
The GG should truely be above politics and be a humble servant of HM

I am quite political but I am also capable of being a loyal subject of the crown - so is the PM and pretty much everybody else.  The "be politically neutral to serve HM" is always brought out and is getting stale.

1)  Nobody is "above politics".

2)  This "loyal servant" stuff is a bit outdated, going to back when the monarchs decisions really mattered and there was genuine fears that Parliament would chuck them out or something - neither really applies today.

FascistLibertarian said:
Ranger I dunno about PEI having as many sens as Ontario....

If the US can manage Rhode Island and California both having 2 Senators, I'm sure we could live with the same.

Also I find it intresting, Aus has a much better system than us (demo wise) BUT people are just as fed up with the system there as they are here.

Ah...the crux - we'll probably never be happy with any of the changes.  The political system is always a good place to lump our complaints I guess.  However, I think these questions are worth raising in order to better align things in a system that has generally worked well for the last 140 years.  Call it a tune-up.
 
So, you want a head of state that is elected.  Two houses of representatives, one with people voting to a "lower" house in ridings, and another voting to an "upper" house, with a fixed number per province.  Where have I heard this before?
 
Yeah, where do you think the Americans got it from - same place we did...
 
Well the first legislative "house" ever was in Iraq (mesopotamia)
maybe they can help us reform our demo ;)
 
FascistLibertarian said:
Ranger I dunno about PEI having as many sens as Ontario....
The problem of course is that none of the provinces which have to many sens for their pop will agree to change the system unelss they get soemthing.
If the GG was elected they would have the ability to use their power (just a thought).
Also I find it intresting, Aus has a much better system than us (demo wise) BUT people are just as fed up with the system there as they are here.
Only with the 'same number of senators' bit. Tasmania has 500,000 people, and as many senators as NSW with 6,000,000. Because you only need 7% to get elected in the national senate, for a few years we had a Tas manutbag called Brian Harradine who held the balance of power after getting only 40,000 votes. He used it to block legistlation from a government who got over 7 million votes.
 
In my opinion, one only has to look at a mess meeting to get a glimpse at how Direct Democracy would end up working.  My experience since I joined has been that getting the membership to engage and become interested in exercising their franchise in support of the Mess is an exercise in futility in many cases.  Ie. I’m sure many army.ca members are aware of bases where people have to be ordered to attend Mess Meetings and attendance is taken to ensure participation.  Consider:

Even though all CF members pay a tax (compulsorily mess dues) most can’t be bothered to attend mess meetings to exercise their franchise.

When they do attend (usually after being ordered to do so) most can’t be bothered to educate and prepare themselves for the meeting by reading the agenda and supporting documentation sent out by the committee and simply end up rubber stamping the committee’s agenda without reasoned debate. 

On the occasions a debate does happen, it is usually not reasoned but rather based on emotion and unsubstantiated opinion because the debate amongst the members is usually initiated by someone with a genuine issue in the matter and then everyone piles on.  In these instances the vote generally follows the bullshit baffles brains axiom as most people in the audience aren’t educated well enough on the topic (as per the a/m point) to actually separate the wheat from the chaff.

Motions passed during one mess meeting are subject to being overturned in subsequent meetings.  At one mess I was at there was a debate regarding increasing mess dues to cover operating expenses.  Rather than agree to the increase proposed by the committee those in attendance line by lined the budget and eventually voted in a smaller increase than proposed while also voting to dump the season’s tickets to the local major league teams (which the mess had had for decades).  The subsequent mess meeting saw a member (who hadn’t bothered to attend the previous meeting) voice his righteous indignation that the tickets were dumped without notice and proposed that the mess buy them back which wasn't possible as anyone who has tried to ever buy season's tickets to a long established team knows and he then motioned that the mess buy individual tickets each game to raffle off to the membership.  The vote was duly passed and the mess was forced to buy individual tickets for those same teams at a cost which probably equalled or exceeded the cost of the season’s tickets for worse seats.  The end result was that that the dues increase was still not sufficient to meet operating expenses yet the mess was out great season’s tickets.

Motions voted down are subject to being recycled for re-voting verbatim due to the membership being unable (or unwilling) to accept that what the committee is attempting to have passed is required and the most cost effective solution.  Again, at one mess I saw the exact same motion tabled by the committee at least 4 times in a row.  During each of these attempts to have the motion passed, approx 30 min of debate ensued to rehash the same issues which were covered during each previous attempt.  Notwithstanding the fact that the crux of the matter was the Mess Manager was attempting to head off a Health and Safety complaint by bar staff a few vocal opponents to the proposition were able to force the committee to restudy the problem in an attempt to find a lower cost solution which did not exist, a fact the committee kept trying to communicate to the membership but no-one would listen.

If we, who generally pride ourselves as being more disciplined, knowledgeable and responsible than the average Canadian, have difficulty exercising direct democracy in an institution with rather simple issues such as a mess, how do we expect the Canadian public to be able to exercise direct democracy any more effectively when dealing with complex matters such as voting on revisions to the Income Tax Act or the Criminal Code when even persons who deal with them on a daily basis have problems interpreting the legislation from time to time?

Additionally, given the vested interests in maintaining the status quo, do you think there’s the remotest possibility the required Constitutional amendment would even be introduced, let alone passed?  I personally do not but I do find this an interesting topic of discussion.
 
As a former VP of a Mess, I give MP00161 the "Checkmate" on that one.

Go out and ask the average Canadian to:

-  Put Afghanistan on a map.
-  Tell you who the President of Russia is
-  Explain the difference between a flat tax and a graduated tax
-  Balance the economic and environmental factors when considering climate change
-  Describe inflation and how it affects interest rates
-  etc, etc, etc, etc

You get the point....
 
MP00161 your comments remind me of the condo building I live in.  I am on the Board of Directors and that is for a three year period.
    We don't have to go back to the building residents for most of our decisions, just high dollar ones. If residents don't like the decisions of the Board they can gather a majority and vote us out.
  Having witnessed the frustration you describe at Mess meetings wouldn't it be great if you could operate like our Board.
Oh and there is no great eagerness of residents to volunteer for the Board so we have a fair degree of independence.
 
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