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Injured recruits misdiagnosed then dropped by military

Having started basic training with Ms. Howell, I can tell you right now that the military is better off without her. Not to be rude or anything, but her physical fitness standards were appauling. I don't even know how she was let into the military in the first place, she couldn't even do 3 measly push-ups, or do one lap of the St.Jean outdoor track without bending over for air. All this was before her injury, ofcourse. The funniest thing about it, was that her trade was infantry! How does a 30 year old that is 60lbs overweight and can't do 3 push-ups or run 100m allowed into the military in the first place?
 
Maybe because there is no testing done prior to getting in.
 
NINJA said:
Having started basic training with Ms. Howell, I can tell you right now that the military is better off without her. Not to be rude or anything, but her physical fitness standards were appauling. I don't even know how she was let into the military in the first place, she couldn't even do 3 measly push-ups, or do one lap of the St.Jean outdoor track without bending over for air. All this was before her injury, ofcourse. The funniest thing about it, was that her trade was infantry! How does a 30 year old that is 60lbs overweight and can't do 3 push-ups or run 100m allowed into the military in the first place?

And here we have a very different perspective. I was kind of wondering about the level of 'preparedness'. If you are out-of-shape and then try to do strenuous workouts, your risk of injury is much, much higher than it would be for a person who is fit.

I'm sure the medics in St. Jean wouldn't give the green light to someone they knew was seriously injured. Ergo, this type of 'error' likely doesn't happen too often, although that's precisely what was implied in the article.

Disclaimer: I'm not a medic nor have I been to St. Jean (yet)...I just don't like whiners. Suck it up, buttercup. ;D
 
Ya gotta wonder where some of these recruits would fall on a BMI chart.
Are recruits who are at an acceptable weight per BMI having physical problems at St.Jean?
 
Baden  Guy said:
Are recruits who are at an acceptable weight per BMI having physical problems at St.Jean?

  Beyond random crap happening (rolled ankles, etc.) absolutely not. My fitness improved, but I don't think I was pushed very hard physically. Mentally...thats another story  :crybaby:
 
I dont think raising the express standards or pre testing is necessary. Truth be told if pre testing exisited I would not have gotten to basic for some time. After having my son I was about 20 pnds over weight. By the end (thank you psp) I surpassed the express test standards and lost 15 pds. I'm thankful that todays rules for entry gave me a chance to do a job I've wanted to do for 8 yrs, but only had the courage to do now.

As for injuries they do happen. Most times the MIR does everything possible. Even if you get thrown in PAT, at least you are gettting paid to heal and can, in most cases, get to re-try basic once healed.
 
There have been troops who have been in PAT platoon for YEARS.  I wonder what happened differently with this two.
 
Baden  Guy said:
Ya gotta wonder where some of these recruits would fall on a BMI chart.
Are recruits who are at an acceptable weight per BMI having physical problems at St.Jean?

We abandoned the BMI as it was useless if you were under 17 years old, a body builder, pregnant.....
People who were really tall and had a big gut still fell within an "acceptable" weight per BMI.

Pte  Brat said:
Truth be told if pre testing exisited I would not have gotten to basic for some time.

Well, then you would have had to be in shape before you joined.  I was in the Reserves when I had my daughter and we didn't get any Mat leave.  I left work at the end of May, had my daughter June 17th (had gained 37 lbs) and was back to work and pre-pregnancy weight after the long weekend in Aug.  I had to fit into work dress which is not quite as "forgiving" as combats are.  ::)

 
I won't weigh in too far on this, as I haven't done anything outside of a PRes BMQ - but there were times during our morning PT (this was a Winter/Spring course) where I (along with many others in the Platoon) felt our safety was at risk.

Running on ice-covered gravel roads full of pot-holes at 0430 in the Winter (when it is still very dark out) is very dangerous.  We had several people get injured this way over the length of the course, and it compromised their/our training.  That said, I was able to keep my eyes wide enough, and stay alert enough, that I wasn't injured - but it most certainly was the only thing I was focused on during morning PT: don't get hurt. 

Believe me, it was with a lot of luck that we didn't have more injuries due to the winter PT conditions.  And I believe that the first woman's argument is that she was injured in bad weather conditions (of course the article doesn't elaborate on that).

Just my two bits - take it or leave it.
 
IntlBr said:
I won't weigh in too far on this, as I haven't done anything outside of a PRes BMQ - but there were times during our morning PT (this was a Winter/Spring course) where I (along with many others in the Platoon) felt our safety was at risk.

Running on ice-covered gravel roads full of pot-holes at 0430 in the Winter (when it is still very dark out) is very dangerous.  We had several people get injured this way over the length of the course, and it compromised their/our training.  That said, I was able to keep my eyes wide enough, and stay alert enough, that I wasn't injured - but it most certainly was the only thing I was focused on during morning PT: don't get hurt. 

Believe me, it was with a lot of luck that we didn't have more injuries due to the winter PT conditions.  And I believe that the first woman's argument is that she was injured in bad weather conditions (of course the article doesn't elaborate on that).

Just my two bits - take it or leave it.

Well if you see a pothole you should inform the rest of the course by saying "Pothole" or is that too much common sense?
 
NFLD Sapper said:
Well if you see a pothole you should inform the rest of the course by saying "Pothole" or is that too much common sense?

  Don't know about you Sapper, but at 0430 my common sense ain't too sharp.  ;)
 
Like I said, most of us got through it alright, but running on ice for several kms never struck me as an entirely sound idea.

Call me crazy...
 
IntlBr said:
Like I said, most of us got through it alright, but running on ice for several kms never struck me as an entirely sound idea.

Call me crazy...

I blame TN2IC aka Sgt. Schutlz for not getting out early enough to salt and sand the roads  ;D

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I may be slightly off-topic, but I felt like touching on a couple of things.

I was not in "good enough" shape when I arrived at BMQ. I had some kind of false belief that I was when I signed up, but a few days into course I knew very well that I should have held off applying until I was in better physical shape. I went to RFT, and joined a new platoon 25 lbs lighter than when I left the first one. I found morning PT on course to be challenging, but definitely do-able. Rucksack marches and field training was also challenging at times, but it's supposed to be! When you are doing something for the first time in your life, it generally doesn't just come perfectly. I gave my all, and did my best in each occasion, and never had a problem completing anything that was asked of me. When graduation time came, I'd lost another 10-15lbs and was in an all around pretty good shape. (which I of course, strive to keep improving in order to be more efficient in my job)

I experienced some trouble during BMQ with rucksack marching. I'm a pretty small female, so I have a bit of trouble adjusting the rucksack to fit me properly and bear the weight evenly across my body. I experienced some pain after the longer marches, but basically just chalked it up to "not being fit enough", and "doing something new for my body". I am sure all these things contributed to it too. What it ended up being, was that I had a stress fracture in my right hip, and didn't know it. It took getting partway into SQ and collapsing on a morning run for me to realize that "just some pain" was more than that. I've just come off almost 2 months of pretty much "no breathing" restrictions, and am back on course doing unit PT. I can't stress how important physical fitness is. I know first hand how being unprepared physically can affect a person, and I will NEVER do that to myself again. My physical fitness level is very important to me now for obvious reasons.

As for the Express test, I'm a firm believer that the minimum standard is too low for this career, especially the female standard. I really don't think that 9 pushups, and a level 4 on the beep test prepares me to be able to do my job effectively. I'd like to hope that females aim to at least meet, if not exceed, the male standard. I know I make sure I can at least meet the male minimum, but that's just my personal view of course.
 
Excellent post, Pea.  From someone with recent experience as well!!
 
It is my personal firm belief that if I get injured on a course due to my physical inabilities it was my own fault for not being physically fit. I do not blame anyone else for that other then myself. If it was due to circumstance outside of my control that I was injured then that is a different story. However, to use the excuse of "training was too hard" is just a whole bunch of BS. I have no sympathy for those who did not take care of themselves and realised their limitations prior to getting into a physically demanding occupation.

Now, that being said. There are lots left to be desired with our current health care system in the CF. There are way too many doctors who don't really care about their patients and are just here to serve out their time. Prior to getting back to their civilian lives. I've had a less then satisfactory doctors on one of my courses at a base that I will not mention. I've generally found PAs to be more in tune with those with boots on the ground and provide and prescribe the best treatment to encourage and facilitate healing 90% of the time.

Anyways just my 0.02.
 
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