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Initiatives launched to retain and increase RCAF personnel experience levels

CBH99

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Dimsum said:
Edmonton would make more sense, since it's closer to the range and any NORAD commitment up that way.  But they tore up the old runways on base, so unless EIA is willing to let the sqns use their infrastructure, good luck.

Re:  Range access - the Australians don't base their aircraft near their big ranges.  In the diagram below, they TD them up for exercises in the ranges (blue circles) as needed, but generally they're near the major cities (red circles) with the exception of RAAF Tindal up north.  RAAF Pierce in Western Australia is essentially their Portage/Moose Jaw, while RAAF East Sale is their 1CFFTS equivalent - no combat aircraft are there.  The RAAF also tend to base all of one type of aircraft in one place (C-17s, Super Hornets, A330s, and Growlers at RAAF Amberley near Brisbane, Hercs and C-27s at RAAF Richmond near Sydney, P-8s at RAAF Edinburgh near Adelaide, etc) except for the fighters, and even then that's only because the Classic Hornets (and soon F-35s) will be at both Tindal and Williamtown. 

All this to say that aside from political reasons, I don't understand why we are so tied to being close to CLAWR.


Sorry.  I'm following this thread with interest, but what does CLAWR stand for??
 

Zoomie

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This article succinctly outlines why Op Experience is still very much on the go.  Nothing has changed in the RCAF to entice a young pilot to stay past his/her RRP/CE 9.  This downturn in the aviation industry will last a few years and then it will only get worse.   

Introduce a compensation model that entices a mbr to want to stick around for 20 years or possibly get promoted and skip right to the higher earnings.  We don’t need to pay our Captain IPC 1 pilots big bucks, just show them what a Captain IPC 16 makes and they will stick around for the $$$.  Flying an airliner is boring, the only draw is predictable schedule and high wage earnings.  Pay us more, and still let us fly cool shit and blow up stuff or go cool places - bonus.
 

MilEME09

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Ditch said:
Introduce a compensation model that entices a mbr to want to stick around for 20 years or possibly get promoted and skip right to the higher earnings.  We don’t need to pay our Captain IPC 1 pilots big bucks, just show them what a Captain IPC 16 makes and they will stick around for the $$$.  Flying an airliner is boring, the only draw is predictable schedule and high wage earnings.  Pay us more, and still let us fly cool crap and blow up stuff or go cool places - bonus.

This would require a complete rework of our pay system, you do this and whats to stop doctors, JAG's, mechanics (both aircraft and not) among other trades from going well why do they get more vs us. Better compensation is fine, but really quality of life would go a lot further, Cold Lake is not a base you can raise a family at easily, Trenton on the other hand is much more friendly to families geographically. While I agree we won't see fighters leave Cold lake, the CAF would be wise to invest serious infrastructure funds to better the quality of life for all personal.
 

Quirky

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Tcm621 said:
To get that 400 dollars a month the cpl has to be merited twice with all the extra work that takes outside of their job like mess committee positions, university courses the military doesn't want to pay for any more, secondary duties, etc.

I avoided all that crap like the plague, came to work and did my job. If you are a good enough maintainer with a boss that recognises your work, you don't need to be on the mess council or organise sports days and bbqs. If that's something you want to do then by all means, but I've already turned down multiple requests to be some mess committee person. If that means I'm passed on promotion, as an aircraft mechanic or supervisor, then the military needs to reevaluate promotion requirements.

 

SupersonicMax

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MilEME09 said:
This would require a complete rework of our pay system, you do this and whats to stop doctors, JAG's, mechanics (both aircraft and not) among other trades from going well why do they get more vs us. Better compensation is fine, but really quality of life would go a lot further, Cold Lake is not a base you can raise a family at easily, Trenton on the other hand is much more friendly to families geographically. While I agree we won't see fighters leave Cold lake, the CAF would be wise to invest serious infrastructure funds to better the quality of life for all personal.

Isn’t there a pay scales adjustment coming up in October/November?
 

Drallib

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SupersonicMax said:
Isn’t there a pay scales adjustment coming up in October/November?

Are you talking about an increase for all CF members? I heard this also but I wasn't sure. When was the last one, 2017?

I heard there's talks about technicians receiving more pay based on their qualifications/authorizations. Such as aquiring Journeyman status, Performance of Maintenance (POM), Level A, etc...
 

daftandbarmy

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Quirky said:
I avoided all that crap like the plague, came to work and did my job. If you are a good enough maintainer with a boss that recognises your work, you don't need to be on the mess council or organise sports days and bbqs. If that's something you want to do then by all means, but I've already turned down multiple requests to be some mess committee person. If that means I'm passed on promotion, as an aircraft mechanic or supervisor, then the military needs to reevaluate promotion requirements.

This.  :nod:
 

MilEME09

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Drallib said:
Are you talking about an increase for all CF members? I heard this also but I wasn't sure. When was the last one, 2017?

I heard there's talks about technicians receiving more pay based on their qualifications/authorizations. Such as aquiring Journeyman status, Performance of Maintenance (POM), Level A, etc...

I heard this back in 2019 when it was discussed at the RCEME council, however the minutes of the fall 2019 meeting haven't been posted online and I doubt the spring 2020 meeting happened so I do not know the results that came out of it.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Ditch said:
This article succinctly outlines why Op Experience is still very much on the go.  Nothing has changed in the RCAF to entice a young pilot to stay past his/her RRP/CE 9.  This downturn in the aviation industry will last a few years and then it will only get worse.   

Introduce a compensation model that entices a mbr to want to stick around for 20 years or possibly get promoted and skip right to the higher earnings.  We don’t need to pay our Captain IPC 1 pilots big bucks, just show them what a Captain IPC 16 makes and they will stick around for the $$$.  Flying an airliner is boring, the only draw is predictable schedule and high wage earnings.  Pay us more, and still let us fly cool shit and blow up stuff or go cool places - bonus.

We could model our career and pay after something I'm envious of that I've mentioned on here before;  the RAF PA (Professional Aircrew) Spine.

If we had it, I'd gun for it 100%;  I'd be more than happy to stay at my current (actually, my last rank) and stay near Line or Trg Sqn's "until CRA";  as it is now the only way I can increase pay/pension is to progress in rank.  I'd trade the rank for a PA program that gave me (nearly) equal pay and pension as those who stayed the course to become Sqn Lead AES OPs/SCWO/SWOs and beyond...
 

TCM621

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Quirky said:
I avoided all that crap like the plague, came to work and did my job. If you are a good enough maintainer with a boss that recognises your work, you don't need to be on the mess council or organise sports days and bbqs. If that's something you want to do then by all means, but I've already turned down multiple requests to be some mess committee person. If that means I'm passed on promotion, as an aircraft mechanic or supervisor, then the military needs to reevaluate promotion requirements.

You are supposed to do your job well, that's the minimum, and when they are promoting 5 of 200 it won't cut it. You can argue the mess stuff isn't important to your job but as long as they give you points for it it will continue to be important for promotion.


 

daftandbarmy

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Tcm621 said:
You are supposed to do your job well, that's the minimum, and when they are promoting 5 of 200 it won't cut it. You can argue the mess stuff isn't important to your job but as long as they give you points for it it will continue to be important for promotion.

Is 'The Mess Stuff' on the PER anywhere? Just wondering....

If not, there are other ways to reward/ recognize those who make other types of contributions, apart from promotion.
 

dimsum

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daftandbarmy said:
Is 'The Mess Stuff' on the PER anywhere? Just wondering....

I believe it's "dedication".  Maybe "verbal communication".

:rofl:
 

garb811

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MilEME09 said:
...
Cold Lake is not a base you can raise a family at easily, Trenton on the other hand is much more friendly to families geographically.
...
Really? Based on what reasoning is it a base you can't raise a family at easily? Seems to me that since the city is approx 15,000 people, a whole bunch of civies are able to make it work. What are the special requirements military families have that civie families don't ?

FWIW, I've had people tell me they don't want to go to Trenton either, because it's too small...
 

childs56

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garb811 said:
Really? Based on what reasoning is it a base you can't raise a family at easily? Seems to me that since the city is approx 15,000 people, a whole bunch of civies are able to make it work. What are the special requirements military families have that civie families don't (keeping in mind

FWIW, I've had people tell me they don't want to go to Trenton either, because it's too small...

The average house price in Trenton is $250,000 Cold Lake its $389,000.
Average household income in Trenton is $60,000 year.
Average in Cold Lake $111,000 year.
There is a big difference in the two.
The level of service in Cold Lake is atrocious. I.lived there with the Military  and then also worked out of there with the Oilfield. Cold Lake was one of the worst service areas I worked out of. Expensive, short of stock and poor attitudes of the service industry.
Those who like Cold.Lake love those who hate it hate it. There are more that hate it then love it.

Its time they move the move fleets to areas not isolated. This allows familys more opportunity to get jobs, careers and supports they need.
Or just throw money at the problem and it will still be there in another 20 years
 

CBH99

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CTD said:
The average house price in Trenton is $250,000 Cold Lake its $389,000.
Average household income in Trenton is $60,000 year.
Average in Cold Lake $111,000 year.
There is a big difference in the two.
The level of service in Cold Lake is atrocious. I.lived there with the Military  and then also worked out of there with the Oilfield. Cold Lake was one of the worst service areas I worked out of. Expensive, short of stock and poor attitudes of the service industry.
Those who like Cold.Lake love those who hate it hate it. There are more that hate it then love it.

Its time they move the move fleets to areas not isolated. This allows familys more opportunity to get jobs, careers and supports they need.
Or just throw money at the problem and it will still be there in another 20 years


Just to add to this, in a few areas.  As someone who is more or less born & raised in Alberta, and worked in the oilfield when the oil industry was pretty robust.

1.  $389,000 (Let's call it $400,000) doesn't even get you that nice of a house.  I'm not kidding.  It's an 'okay' house in an 'okay' area... everybody (and I mean everybody) is employed in either the oil industry, or the service industry. 

If being surrounded by imbred morons in pickup trucks is someone's ideal town, Cold Lake is the place for you.  Right up there with Grande Prairie and Ft. Mac.  (Thankfully God saw it in his heart to burn that place to the ground a few years back...and most of it wasn't rebuilt, as once people left, they didn't want to return.)

Crime isn't bad, but it's not great either.  While you do get some mature families who work hard & raise good kids, the number of young oilfield guys with bad attitudes and nothing else to do but drinking/drugs completely outweighs whatever good things Cold Lake has going for it.  (Young guys, bored, prevalence of alcohol & heavy drugs, and they used to START at about $44 an hour on average.)



It's not that raising a family on the base is any harder than raising a family somewhere else, such as CFB Winnipeg or CFB Edmonton.  It's that having any sort of life outside of military housing, beyond just social stuff, is very very difficult.  (My very limited  :2c:)
 

SupersonicMax

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Cold Lake is not bad for young families but it can be a significant challenge for families with high school kids.  The crime rates are fairly high and the education at that level is deficient which is not really a good combo for setting up young adults for a successful adult life.

We’re okay with Cold Lake but we would not want to raise teenagers here.
 
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