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Iltis & light patrol vehicles (from: TAPV thread)

Kat Stevens

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Bring back the 106 recoilless, I say, would look smashing with those old pips n crowns.  And you can mount it on anything bigger than a DR bike... G Wagons up!
 

OldSolduer

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My "Molisha" pals and I want this. Since we're Saturdays And Sunday soldiers......and we could probably mount a 106.
 

George Wallace

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Hamish Seggie said:
My "Molisha" pals and I want this. Since we're Saturdays And Sunday soldiers......and we could probably mount a 106.

You must be nearing the "geriatric age".  I think most young "Molisha" Cbt Arms soldiers would prefer something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEb8s5EytqE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYk6l7fmgY0
 

Eland2

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Bzzliteyr said:
And we had Iltis mounted TOW systems didn't we?

I don't know if TOW systems were ever mounted on the Iltis, even experimentally, but I have seen photos of TOW being mounted on M151 jeeps and on the 1/2-ton jeep-like trucks the army had up until the very early 1970s.
 

MilEME09

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Kat Stevens said:
Bring back the 106 recoilless, I say, would look smashing with those old pips n crowns.  And you can mount it on anything bigger than a DR bike... G Wagons up!

I bet those old things are just sitting in packing grease in war stocks, they would be cheap to operate, and ammo couldn't be that hard to manufacture?
 

Colin Parkinson

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as has the 106mm on G-wagons

You could have the reserves go light , towed 120mm mortars, VBL type light armour, infantry carried in 4x4 or 6x6 small off road trucks (Pinzuger style) with TOW mounted in G-wagons and even the automatic grenade launchers mounted on them.  8)

Ammo is still being made for the 106m RR

 

a_majoor

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Hamish Seggie said:
My "Molisha" pals and I want this. Since we're Saturdays And Sunday soldiers......and we could probably mount a 106.

The Brits might give you the Land Rover WMIK for a song, since they have moved to the larger Jackal MWMIK.
 

MilEME09

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Colin P said:
as has the 106mm on G-wagons

You could have the reserves go light , towed 120mm mortars, VBL type light armour, infantry carried in 4x4 or 6x6 small off road trucks (Pinzuger style) with TOW mounted in G-wagons and even the automatic grenade launchers mounted on them.  8)

Ammo is still being made for the 106m RR

Sounds like we would become Motorized brigade groups
 

daftandbarmy

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How about a MILANdrover?

I wonder if they could be delivered with the 1/35 model kits?



 

Eland2

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If something like the Supacat Jackal had been available when I was serving with 'C' Squadron 1st Hussars in 1980, it would have been just too cool seeing the unit get a few of them. Greater cross-country mobility and speed, plus the ability to mount two GPMG's and/or a grenade launcher, plus tons of room for radios and personal kit plus typical vehicle stores, what's not to like?

 

Kirkhill

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Reckless in Syria....

http://www.wired.com/2013/05/ancient-us-weapon-in-syria/

Add the Aimpoint FCS12 sight system - which is also compatible with CG84, HMGs and GMGs

http://www.all4shooters.com/en/home/pro-zone/2013-news/Aimpoint-FCS12-Fire-Control-System/



 

a_majoor

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I have a few reservations about the Jackal design (especially with the crew being seated over the wheels, not exactly the best place when you roll over a mine or IED), but in terms of payload, performance and weapons carriage, it is certainly a huge step up from the Land Rover 110 or similar light vehicles.

Circling around the drain again; a modern "light" vehicle combining speed, cross country mobility and enough load carriage to be a useful platform could be derived from the Israeli "Combat Guard", although a tire change would be rather challenging  :eek:.

If you are looking at the ability to "patrol" where no one else can go and still carry a useful payload (including weaponry) a BV-206 or similar marginal terrain vehicle (Viking or Bronco) is amphibious, can cross soft ground which can sink a dismounted soldier and carries up to 5 tons of payload. 106mm recoilless cannons, TOW ATGMs or even 81mm mortars can be carried aboard and fired from the vehicle, or you can carry up to 16 people.

Kirkhill will weigh in on the virtues of even lighter ATV type vehicles, which do have a niche role (although I would suggest even an ATV would be far more useful if it was fully amphibious, perhaps an evolved version of the ARGO ATV).
 

X Royal

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Thucydides said:
(although I would suggest even an ATV would be far more useful if it was fully amphibious, perhaps an evolved version of the ARGO ATV).
Argo?
With limited speed & range with a plastic body I can't see this being too useful even with many modifications.
 

daftandbarmy

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Thucydides said:
I have a few reservations about the Jackal design (especially with the crew being seated over the wheels, not exactly the best place when you roll over a mine or IED), but in terms of payload, performance and weapons carriage, it is certainly a huge step up from the Land Rover 110 or similar light vehicles.

Circling around the drain again; a modern "light" vehicle combining speed, cross country mobility and enough load carriage to be a useful platform could be derived from the Israeli "Combat Guard", although a tire change would be rather challenging  :eek:.

If you are looking at the ability to "patrol" where no one else can go and still carry a useful payload (including weaponry) a BV-206 or similar marginal terrain vehicle (Viking or Bronco) is amphibious, can cross soft ground which can sink a dismounted soldier and carries up to 5 tons of payload. 106mm recoilless cannons, TOW ATGMs or even 81mm mortars can be carried aboard and fired from the vehicle, or you can carry up to 16 people.

Kirkhill will weigh in on the virtues of even lighter ATV type vehicles, which do have a niche role (although I would suggest even an ATV would be far more useful if it was fully amphibious, perhaps an evolved version of the ARGO ATV).

Forget the fancy schmancy stuff... right now a few dozen 'off the shelf' heavily armed Chevy 30 cwt (or a modern equivalent) would probably be miles ahead of where we are now. Viz:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group
 

Kat Stevens

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FAVs all the way baby! http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fast_attack_vehicle_(FAV).jpg
 

Kirkhill

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Just to demonstrate to Thucydides that I may be harder to "template" than he figures  ;D

and in the spirit of compromise

Howabout the Ford F350 - as fitted by Ricardo for the Irish Army with WMIK?

FordF-350ARWCurragh.jpg


At 2m x 5.7m that's about 8 per C17. Not 18 Iltis but not 2 LAVs either.

And readily available at your local Ford dealer (kindof).

PS - and you could sling it under a CH-147/148/149...
 

a_majoor

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X Royal said:
Argo?
With limited speed & range with a plastic body I can't see this being too useful even with many modifications.

Well think of the Argo as a template for what "we" might want. It is a marginal terrain vehicle, can be fitted with tracks for really extreme conditions and is fully amphibious. The Chinese have an 8X8 ATV which might serve as an inspiration as well.

As for the Ford F-350 as a WMIK, I am for that. Popular Mechanics went one better by using the Ford F-450 chassis as the basis for a thought experiment Joint Tactical Light Vehicle, which combines the mobility and firepower *we* want with armoured protection, which seems to be a "must have" these days since casualties can derail virtually any operation by sapping public support. Maybe not so many on a C-17, but still more than a LAV or two.
 
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