I am vexed

[Occam]

Hey thanks!  A friend of mine also gave me a heads up that I could park over at OttawaU (she works there). So I'll add that to my list of possibilities.

Yup, that's only a little further away.  See http://www.protection.uottawa.ca/en/parking-map.html, there are Pay & Display lots at the corner of Laurier & Nicholas, and Stewart & Nicholas (and some more to the south if you're really stuck).  I wouldn't be able to tell you how popular those lots are.

 

[Lil_T]

I found gobs o' parking at City Hall.  Everything went great... and then I got home and found 2 feet of snow at the end of the driveway.  Ah January in eastern ontario.  The fun never stops. :

 

[Occam]

I found gobs o' parking at City Hall.  Everything went great... and then I got home and found 2 feet of snow at the end of the driveway.  Ah January in eastern ontario.  The fun never stops. :

Glad to hear it went well for you!  I had to use the lot myself today - dropped the little guy off at daycare at 0700, and spent the next 2 full hours on the drive in from Orleans to park at the city hall lot, and it was still only 1/4 full.  This transit strike had better end soon...

 

[Lil_T]

I am SO over this stupid strike.  They vote tomorrow.  I have a bad feeling things are going to get ugly if they vote no.

 

[Occam]

Things are already ugly.  On the CBC news, did you see the car that ran a picket line today, with a picketer holding onto the side of the car for about 100'?  Apparently the police are investigating.  I don't understand what the union figures they're going to gain - public support is heavily against them (strong support for the contract that was offered by the city).  If they vote no tomorrow, I see things getting downright violent.

Normally, I'm all for collective bargaining - but this is just plain blackmail by the drivers union.

 

[Lil_T]

Noooo I missed that.  CTV was at city hall when I was there though.  Good lord.  The fit is going to hit the shan if the majority votes no tomorrow.

 

[George Wallace]

The City has given them quite a good offer.  Has anyone heard of a 7% pay increase anywhere else these days? 

I think that they would improve the image of their Union if they fired their President.......What an arrogant arse he is.

 

[Occam]

Well, to be fair - it's 7.25% over three years (3.25% in 2008, and 2% in each of 2009 and 2010).  But still...when even PSAC settles for 6.8% over four years, I don't see very many people shedding any tears over the city's offer.

And I'm wholeheartedly with your opinion of their president...

 

[Lil_T]

He's a tool.  I'm still flabbergasted that it's been the union doing all the scheduling all this time.  NEVER have I heard of such a thing.  They're lucky to even have jobs IMO, much less pay increases.  Have you heard the radio ads the city put out?  Outlines bits of their offer which I think is VERY fair.  

 

[George Wallace]

Not bad offer.  Pay increase.  Select their own routes, and hours depending on Senority, etc.  As for wanting Respect, that is something that isn't an item in a Contract and isn't something for the City Council to provide; it is something that their own people have to "manage" (At least in every other workplace it is.).  I don't see very many Drivers who haven't been grumpy/bitchy at their jobs.  Only a few have honestly been known to show respect to their riders.  They definitely haven't been showing much respect to the citizens of Ottawa with this strike. 

 

[Occam]

I haven't delved into it much, but I think the scheduling issue is common amongst transit companies.  It allows them to optimize overtime hours amongst the senior drivers.  I think Toronto does the same thing, which is how the TTC ended up with 388 employees earning in excess of $100,000 in 2007.  I'd be curious to see the figures on the Ottawa drivers.

 

[Lil_T]

Not bad offer.  Pay increase.  Select their own routes, and hours depending on Senority, etc.  As for wanting Respect, that is something that isn't an item in a Contract and isn't something for the City Council to provide; it is something that their own people have to "manage" (At least in every other workplace it is.).  I don't see very many Drivers who haven't been grumpy/bitchy at their jobs.  Only a few have honestly been known to show respect to their riders.  They definitely haven't been showing much respect to the citizens of Ottawa with this strike. 

+1 George.  respect is earned, and the union is certainly not commanding much in that arena.

 

[George Wallace]

The citizens of Ottawa are getting upset.  Someone has created a website Petition to end the Strike:  http://www.fireottawabusdrivers.com/

Looks like they want to Fire all the drivers.  I think the Senior Drivers and the Union are what has to go.  Junior Drivers, without seniority sometimes can't get 40 hours a week and suffer, while Senior Drivers can get overtime and six figure wages.  Senior Drivers of course are also the Union Reps and driving the Union.  The strike doesn't affect them as much as the younger, less senior drivers who may start to feel the pinch in their wallets in the next few weeks.  Looks like this is a Union of "Fat Cats dictating to the little guys" what to do when it comes to time for a 'vote' if one can reasonably call it that.  They definitely haven't put forward a very good image to the General Public.

 

[Lil_T]

I don't disagree with that idea at all.  It really cheesed me off to see the union members complaining that they wanted to continue having time for their family, and the respect thing.  All I could think when I saw them saying "it's not about the money"  was that the city should take the money off the table since they don't want it anyway.  They should feel lucky to even have a job, IMO.  I don't see how it's unfair for the city to want control over the scheduling at all.  I feel for the junior drivers as well - a girl I know, her husband just got a job with OC Transpo, worked there for 5 weeks and then they went on strike.  I feel for them because they just had a baby so she's on mat leave and he's only pulling in strike pay now.  So I don't know how they're surviving.

 

[George Wallace]

Well Lil_T, as the OC Transpo Strike continues more is coming out about the Union (especially the Senior Members) demands and why they turned down a 7% pay increase and a $2K bonus, two things many in other jobs would love to have in these economic times.  GREED.  The "Scheduling Issue" is the thing that they have been fighting for for a great many years.  It is the loopholes in the contract that allows Senior Members to pick their own Routes and Schedules and a loophole that pays them over time for working certain hours and locations.  If a Senior Member schedules themself on a long route that would have them out past their "quiting time" they would get overtime for their time on the way back.  If there was overtime pay for working weekends or holidays, they could schedule their hours for those times.  This gives them six figure pay checks, and leaves Junior drivers with less chances of overtime.   

A question has also arisen as to the National Transportation Regulation for drivers to have 8 hrs rest between driving periods.  It looks like this Union doesn't agree with any City enforcement of these Regulations. 

This really makes the Union President and his cronies look like corrupt children.  I guess that is why he always wants to take "his football and go home".

I wonder if some of the people who have lost their jobs due to this Union, will take out a Class Action Suit against the Amalgamated Transit Union of Ottawa.

 

[Lil_T]

Wow George.  I can't say I'm overly surprised at that revelation.  I was reading in the Sun yesterday about people that have lost their jobs and now can't even get to the food bank because of this strike.  I tend to agree with the people who put forth the online petition.  Fire them all, starting with Mr. Cornellier.  They've had theur hands in the cookie jar far too long, it's time they got their hands slapped.

My question is, will it be deemed an essential service?  The economy is bad enough as it is, but what they're doing is criminal, and I'd wager a hefty bet that what support they did have is on the wane.  I also think Clive Doucet should shut his trap until this strike is over.  Bringing forth diviciveness among city council is not going to help matters much either.

I was reading somewhere (memory is shot lately) that the city is looking into hiring scab workers and junior employees that want to work to get the buses back on the road. 

I was never anti-union when I was younger, but now, with all the crap I've heard from various unions (ATU, CAW, etc.)... I'm starting to question their purpose.  Seems like it's more about the gimme more attitude than it is about protecting the little guy.  It's unfortunate that they can't use even a little common sense with the way things are right now.  The union is walking a fine line, in an Animal Farm kind of way.  The way things seem to go with the ATU is that eventually the Union will be management.... and then who will protect the workers from them?

 

[George Wallace]

Unions may have outlived their usefulness.  With the Union Bosses in many cases becoming nothing more than high paid bureaucrats.  In fact some of these Bosses have turned into nothing more than "Politicians" feeding on their Unions to promote their own agendas.  When was the last time anyone thinks someone like Buzz Hargrove actually worked on a Shop Floor? 

We have come a long way when it comes to the Rights of the Worker, and that is due to the creation of the Unions, but it seems that today the Union Bosses just can't stop in their move to overcome Management.  Today's companies know that they need a dedicated workforce and strive to maintain one.  Politically, we have passed laws to protect the worker, created measures to protect people from harassment, diversity training has been implemented, and other laws all of which resulted from the long evolution of the society as a whole.  Unions have evolved well past their socialistic and communistic origins and become slaves to their, in some cases corrupt, Union Bosses.  Is it time that we looked at new and better ways to make and guard workers rights?  Can our present Governments be relied upon to legislate workers rights?  Can Companies encourage their workers with stock options and shares in the company to maintain loyalty?  Has the "Union seen its last days"?

 

[PMedMoe]

While I don't know much about unions, I tend to agree that their time of usefulness may have passed.  The reason they're still around is just as George stated; some high paid bureaucrat would be out of a job.  It's like the proposal of a flat tax, a straight amount taken off your pay and no yearly filing.  They'll never do that because all the auditors, administrators, etc at Revenue Canada would be out of a job.  :

 

[George Wallace]

While I don't know much about unions, I tend to agree that their time of usefulness may have passed.  The reason they're still around is just as George stated; some high paid bureaucrat would be out of a job.  It's like the proposal of a flat tax, a straight amount taken off your pay and no yearly filing.  They'll never do that because all the auditors, administrators, etc at Revenue Canada would be out of a job.   :

I see someone else just go their Tax Forms in the mail.....  ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

I see someone else just go their Tax Forms in the mail.....  ;D

Nope, not yet, but they may be in Kingston.  This year's going to kill me due to all the back pay.  :-\