How did Militia training evolve?

[x-grunt]

I know this post has the potential to go downhill fast, I sincerely hope it doesn't. I'm posting this as I just read in another thread that Militia BMQ is about 20 days long.

I am curious about how Militia training evolved into it's current form. I note that Reg force, NavRes and AirRes training are all roughly equivalent in length and format, but Militia training to the trained soldier level is quite a bit different. BMQ through to trained infantry (and I assume other Militia CA trades?) takes about 60-70 days of training, often parceled out on weekends. This is about the same as Reg/NavRes/AirRes BMQ alone. It seems to represent a significant difference in training at the entry level compared to other Reserve orgs or the Regs. ( I have not included Comm Res as I know nothing about it.)

My questions are:
1. Does anyone know how this developed to be so different from the rest of the CF?
2. If a 20 day BMQ works for the Militia, why not for other Reserves? Conversely, if it's not sufficient training for others, how does it work for the Militia?

 

[23007]

From what I remember when I did it five years ago was that you do QL2 training during the winter months on selected weekends, evenings, and Easter (at least I did). Then during the summer, you would spend 8 or 10 weeks on QL3 at which point you would be trade qualified, i.e. infantry soldier. You would then continue on with QL4 and so on to be better qualified. Its a very good system for the ARMY RESERVE (Don`t call it the militia please!). I can`t speak on behalf of the other two reserve services, however, they don`t need to be the same anyways. Naval reserves and Air reserves personnel would never need to pick up a rifle...Regforce Navy and Air force on the other hand, has to be qualified in basic army training. Its the nature of the beast...

 

[DG-41]

My impression (I don't know for sure, but I was a BMQ course officer in 1996 or so) was that it was taking too long to get qualified soldiers when the only training cycle open to you was the summer courses. It would take two full summers to get a basic trooper qualified assuming that said trooper was actually able to attend training for that long of a block two summers in a row.

By allowing more courses to be run on site at the units, and by trimming the amount of training days required per course, it was possible to get troops trained on a more reasonable timeframe. In my instance, we ran a Basic course at the unit over the course of the training year, then all the graduates from that course were loaded on the QL3/TQ3 that summer. We wound up with an intake of fully qualified troopers on the timeframe of one calendar year instead of (at least) two.

The downside of course is that it is much more difficult to impart the proper level of training and indoctrination we want in new soldiers on evenings and weekends - at the end of the training night, they get to go home to Mom. Evenings and weekends demands a lot more out of your instructors in order to produce a properly trained troop.

I've been away from planning training for a little while, but I expect that the trends established in the mid 90's only further developed up to the present day.

DG

 

[mdh]

I think a partial answer lies in the historical notion that that the militia is supposed to be a force of part-time citizen soldiers that represent a cross-section of Canadian society.  

In one sense the militia is as much a movement as a military force - a kind of repository of military tradition and culture at the community level. Consequently the training requirements have always been geared to part-time service and there is also a recognition that army reserve service needs to be balanced with civvy careers/family life.  

The air and navy reserve (IMHO) have moved in a different direction with the adoption of the Total Force concept; because of the intensely technical nature of their personnel requirements they have simply departed from any serious engagement of part-time citizen participation - at least in terms that would allow any civilian with a career commitment to take off the large amounts of time they demand for training.

That's not meant to be a criticism of the air or navy reserves - but they are not organizations geared to more mature candidates with settled career paths.

cheers, mdh  

 

[x-grunt]

8 or 10 weeks on QL3 at which point you would be trade qualified, i.e. infantry soldier.

Okay, thanks. That's very different from what I thought was the case, I thought it was about 8-9 weeks for all training up to and including QL3, or BIQ, or what ever they are calling it today. I remember it was at one time, GMT through TQ1 infantry took place in two summer months.

Don`t call it the militia please

Militia used to be the proper name for the Army Reserve. Has it changed? If so, apologies.

Naval reserves and Air reserves personnel would never need to pick up a rifle...Regforce Navy and Air force on the other hand, has to be qualified in basic army training

My point was that it seemed that the other Res elements were getting the training the Militia ... oops, je'm excuse, the Army Reserve had truncated for some reason.

 

[mo-litia]

The word militia IS the proper term for Canada's army reserve.  I am not sure why 23007 doesn't like the term; I, for instance, am very proud to call myself a militiaman.  The term militia is grounded in over a century of usage by Canada's citizen soldiers and has none of the negative connotations commonly associated with the term as used in the US.  

 

[23007]

I was speaking from my own experience. I`m not sure about other units across Canada, however, my old unit blasted me for calling it the militia. They said that "Army Reserves" is a much more politically correct term. However, if other others across the country still use the term "militia" then I stand corrected.

 

[x-grunt]

Hey, mdh, your answer makes sense. You and I have spoken before about the trials and tribs of balancing civvie/military careers, esp at our "advanced" ages.  The Militia seems to win that struggle easily over NavRes in the early years, even if early training is a bit less thorough. ( I like "Militia", it has the weight of history behind it. And it's easier to type.)

Now, as I had posted before, times were a militiaman could be fully trained in one summer including what passed for BMQ, SQ and BIQ. Am I now reading that this is not so? In which case Militia trg is actually getting more robust over time.

In one sense the militia is as much a movement as a military force

Can you expand on this, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. And are you saying this is not so of NavRes? (Air Res is invisible at the community level here, perhaps NavRes is too but I don't see that due to my interest.)

 

[mdh]

Can you expand on this, I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. And are you saying this is not so of NavRes? (Air Res is invisible at the community level here, perhaps NavRes is too but I don't see that due to my interest.)

Ex-grunt,

All I mean by movement is that the militia has been the one Canadian military institution that has a recognizable presence in communities across Canada  - if you add up the number of people who have served with the army reserve since the end of WW2 the number would be staggering; I'm always running into people who have spent some time in the militia (often as a summer job via BMQ), whereas I can honestly say that I've only met one former navy reservist and one active air reservist (outside of this board of course  ).

This is due in part to sheer size - as the militia is much larger than either the air or navy reserve. But it also has a lot to do with community interaction too. The militia represents a type of community service which appeals to people in civilian life who want to contribute something back to their country. (Historically it is really the militia that is the senior service in Canada not the navy.) There is an armoury located in every major Canadian city - usually downtown and usually it's a building of historic significance. The regional identification of various regiments - nearly all of them steeped in history - reinforces that impression of a grass roots military institution.

Again this is not to say that the navy reserve or air reserve doesn't have the same kind of appeal or very keen citizen soldiers in their own right - but in my view they have chosen to focus on technocratic expertise rather than figuring out a way to broaden their ranks in the community (and when it comes to making arguments for more budget support they could pay a price for that without an active and vocal public support network.)

(As an aside the RAF works hard to maintain an auxiliary organization that actively recruits a wide range of support personnel who fill various MOCs - everything from clerks to airfield defence troops - at air bases and gear their training to ensure they can maintain both a civvy job and part-time air force career.)

This is an admittedly impressionistic view but if anyone out there is from the navy or air reserve I'd like to hear otherwise.

cheers, mdh

 

[x-grunt]

Can you see a civvie becoming a fully trained infantryman in the space of 12 weeks (a typical uni student summer, high school is even shorter)? Heck, reg force BMQ is 9 weeks and SQ is another 5 weeks or so....(I may be wrong).

Exactly what I was wondering about. And yet according to this link I just found http://www.army.dnd.ca/48highlanders/images/coursesboards.gif that's exactly what happens in about 12 weeks through summers or weekends. (Plus an exercise...is this true for all units, or just the 48th?) And of course normal unit training on weeknights and weekends. Which is an improvement, some years ago it was 9 weeks plus a 2 week concentration.

And as you say, that's less then Reg force, or other Res components. But perhaps more workable for many part-time military members, as mdh notes. I guess my original questions come from the fact that of all the components of the CF, somehow the Militia managed to get themselves a different way of doing things. In some regards better, others worse - but different. And I was curious as to how they managed to do it through the whole integration and total force thing.

 

[x-grunt]

I'm thinking this may be in the wrong forum, perhaps Military History or Radio chatter would have been better. Sorry mods!

 

[Sig_Des]

I, for instance, am very proud to call myself a militiaman

"Militiaman, Militiaman, does whatever the Reg Force Can...."

The term militia can still be used for the Army reserves as far as I am aware...

To answer your question, or rather, to inform about the Comm Res:

We have a 7-8 week long BMQ/SQ (depends on what they change from year to year...it varies)

QL3's for Sig Ops is 2 months...QL5's 6 weeks...

 

[x-grunt]

Ex-grunt,

All I mean by movement is that the militia has been the one Canadian military institution that has a recognizable presence in communities across Canada
etc.
cheers, mdh 

Ah, I get your meaning now.

but in my view they have chosen to focus on technocratic expertise rather than figuring out a way to broaden their ranks in the community

Right, and thus the differences in the training formats. Okay.

 

[geo]

there are Reserves:
- Air Reserve
- Naval Reserve
- Communications Reserve

And then there is the Militia.........  though the Comm Reserves and the Militia are often thrown together and described by the catchall "army Reserve"

Lots of people do not like the term "militia" because of some negative conotations generated by what is heard of and read about in the US media.... Militias in the US are frequently portaryed as a bunch of vigilante yahoos'.... which we are not.

The Air, Nav and Comm reserves follow the exact same courses as given to their Regular force brothers
The militia does not necessarily cover 100% of the material given to their Regular force brothers.... you will hear people talk about a "delta" between the two... which refers to the material that our superiors have decided is not 100% necessary for 95% of reservists. The intent being that soldiers who go active and are attached to Reg force units will be brought up to scratch prior to deployment...

 

[Haggis]

I was speaking from my own experience. I`m not sure about other units across Canada, however, my old unit blasted me for calling it the militia. They said that "Army Reserves" is a much more politically correct term. However, if other others across the country still use the term "militia" then I stand corrected.

Politically correct or not, "Army Reserve" is the official name for what is known historically as "The Militia".
http://www.army.forces.gc.ca/lf/English/army_reserve.asp

Lots of people do not like the term "militia" because of some negative conotations generated by what is heard of and read about in the US media.... Militias in the US are frequently portaryed as a bunch of vigilante yahoos'.... which we are not.

True, but ask your average parent on the street if they would rather have little Johnny/Janie join "the Militia" or "the Army Reserve" and you generally get a more positive response from "Army Reserve".

 

[geo]

Haggis....
refs the parents.... goes back to my observation about the negative press the term "militia" has earned over the years.

The point is somewhat moot right now.... with the restructure of the CF, the line between Reg & Res will be fading even more if the CDS has his way. Soldieers working part time.... going full time.... going back to part time.... it'll make the career managers go completely round the bend.

 

[Gayson]

It took me 4 courses to get my hook.

8 weeks worth for BMQ / SQ, 4 Weeks worth for DP1 and 4 weeks worth for DP2.

16 weeks is a long time, though not as long as the regs, I would still say that your typical army reservist who takes his job serious should be considered well tranined (though not to the same standard as the reg force arrmy).  I think the reserves get a decent amount of training (for the amount that most guys put in).  The courses themselves could be improved though.

 

[Haggis]

The point is somewhat moot right now.... with the restructure of the CF, the line between Reg & Res will be fading even more if the CDS has his way. Soldieers working part time.... going full time.... going back to part time.... it'll make the career managers go completely round the bend.

Unlike the Naval Reserve, Army Reservists don't have career managers. Each soldier is his/her own career manager.   No one "looks out" for you.   You're on your own.

There is and will remain a big black line between the Army Reserve and the Army Reg F.   Despite the best intentions of the CDS and transformation, a change in mindset and employment policy is a prereqisite.  Also enabling legislation is needed to protect Reservists who do the jump to full time and back.   Otherwise it'll be status quo to what we have now, which has been discussed to death in other threads.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

The Air, Nav and Comm reserves follow the exact same courses as given to their Regular force brothers

Not true for the Comm Res, our BMQ/SQ, although it is done separately from the Army Reserve, (in Shilo) is total 8 weeks long. This is similar to the length of the same Army Reserve courses, AFAIK. The sig op QL3 course is also significantly shorter then the Reg force course, 9 weeks compared to nearly 6 months.

 

[geo]

Oh really?
Sheesh..... there goes my respect for you
OK.... so all the green army reserve / militia has a big "delta" hanging from it's neck.

Haggis... yeah - you are right, the green reserves don't have careem managers "yet".
Some are paying a lot of attention to what the navy has done - intending to apply some or all of these career management programs "at large"..... the reserve soldier is headed for pretty much the same thing as the labour market - contract workers; turn it on and turn it off

The reserves waited 30+ years for a Pension plan.... wonder if it'll take as long

Cheers!