Helo Insertion Methods

[Kev T]

This question is something that's been nagging at me for a while especially since I can't find an answer anywhere. I've seen our infantrymen rappel out of helicopters, I've seen them helo-cast, and I've observed some Patricia's fast-roping from a tower in Washington (on video), but how often is fast-roping practiced and technically are our troops formally trained to do it up here in Canada? This is of course with regards to Infantry/Combat Arms and not JTF2 which we all know uses this skill of course. Is the reason why we don't see this technique used much up here because of the particular transport helicopters perhaps? With the ever increasingly complex and difficult terrain and environments our troops will find themselves working in for the next while I think fast-roping is an effecient way for them to deploy quickly in areas which may be difficult for a chopper to land or denied to land vehicles.

 

[Armymatters]

Just a quick note that often if a helo "lands" in combat situations, it often never touches the ground, due to a fear of landmines or booby traps. The skids or the wheels will often hover just a few centimetres above the ground.

 

[Slim]

Just a quick note that often if a helo "lands" in combat situations, it often never touches the ground, due to a fear of landmines or booby traps. The skids or the wheels will often hover just a few centimetres above the ground.

The rotor wash by itself can set of certain types of mines.

Your out of your depth here Armymatters.

You've been sent a Pm that you need to consider carefully.

The Staff

 

[T Man]

I believe the Green Army has not fully staffed this through Directorate of Army trg yet. At 1 Wing we received requests all the time to do this but the "green army": had no kit to do Fast Roping. The piloting skills required for FR are the same for Rapp, right place at the right time at the right altitude, stable hover. Although the Flight Engineer and RM terminology might be slightly different it is no big deal. I left the Wing HQ last summer so I am not sure how it has advanced since then but we were always of the contention that if DAT and CTC wanted it done then we would jointly purchase the FR kits and then get it done. We would like to do it as a matter of fact.

When on Roto 7 we pulled the Incident Response Team (IRT) in Sipivo as the Dutch Cougars did not have a functional hoist. We did the majority of our trg with the UK Royal Eng. That had cautioned us that the down-wash from our helos could set of some mines from 150' and below. While we did not desire to test this theory, I could be convinced that we could hover a lot lower in the Griffy than other previous platforms (RN Sea King, RAF Chinook)..

 

[Kev T]

Thanks for the answer. Hopefully soon our troops will be able to carry out this training more often.

 

[GO!!!]

We have done fast ropng in other places, and some guys got to do SPIEs as well, the problem seems to be, as T man said, a lack of kit.

I am also of the opinion that certain parts of the army are putting safety ahead of operational requirements - but that's just me. All you need to fast rope is the rope, gloves, and a helo with some sort of boom or overhang for the rope to hang off of, so that you clear the edge of the bird/skid on your way out. It would not be too hard to add fast roping to a rappell tower, although I believe that there will be more injuries, simply due to the fact that it is not "dummy proof" like rappelling.

Realistically though, if we don't have Chinooks, you can insert eight guys faster rappelling from a 146 than fast roping, so it won't really be an issue until we get a bird capable of holding alot of troops.

 

[gatorjumper]

We did fast roping and the extraction hanging under a blackhawk in Ft. Benning with the Rangers.  Fast roping is very effective and no swiss seat to pinch your nuts is required.  But the extraction was a rush.  Not like a good jump though.

 

[R031]

CSOR members will  be expected to conduct fast rope insertions. Way at the very least the Light Battalions of the reg force regiments are not trained to do this all ready seems pretty stupid. But hopefully, I say again,hopefully after CSOR starts training in this method of insertion it will be added to the rappel master course package, or made its course and then it can start filtering down to the rest of the army.

 

[Doug VT]

I doubt very much that fast roping will be added to the RM course.  As it stands, the RM course is a garrison course.  There is much more to add to the content of the course WRT anchoring systems, urban ops, and while using a wider array of equipment. 

It's more likely that there will be our very own Fast rope/SPIES master course in the future somewhere.

There is a new rappel tower scheduled to be built in Petawawa in the summer, and we've planned for it to have fast roping apparatus built into the structure.  But just because it's there doesn't mean that we'll be allowed to use it...

 

[Kev T]

It's more likely that there will be our very own Fast rope/SPIES master course in the future somewhere.

That would be awesome. I heard the Light Forces Working Group was there to improve the light battalions i.e. they want light infantry to be more than just infantry without vehicles. Hopefully this will eventually be a core skill utilized by the light battalions in the near future.