Helmets 2 Hardhats [Merged]

[dogger1936]

I think many of the objections are due to the fact that it's the same thing offered to civilians as well...just a "rebranding" of sorts to make it appear any different than whats being offered to high school students. I also think much of the confusion lays in the fact most of our injured from our past decade of war fighting would stay in the military if they were fit enough to work construction. I started off in construction prior to the military in construction...and that aint easy work on the body. Add in a bunch of injuries not a really great place for a injured soldier to be.

 

[aesop081]

ok, fair enough.

 

[Rifleman62]

On TV last year there was a program all about Mike Homes. He does a lot of work visiting schools to promote construction trades.

You may be interested in the Homes Foundation: http://makeitright.ca/Holmes_Foundation/foundation.php?page_id=76

I will write to the Foundation to see if they will partner/support this VAC program. I am sure if MH gets in on it, VAC will accept.

If anything, it will raise the profile of this Vet program. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

 

[Jed]

Excellent idea R62.

 

[exabedtech]

I wouldn't be so down on construction jobs.  Since I was med released I started up a contracting firm and do far better financially that the military could ever offer.  I've hired a number of PTSD cases through an arrangement with the base and while some have worked out, other haven't.  Not a lot different from other groups i've hired from.
Construction is a pretty broad field.  You have everything from the roofers doing very hard manual labour right to instrument techs walking about the site with that one tiny screwdriver. 
Getting the apprenticeship at all is the hard part, but if the military can assist you in that, its a hell of a bonus.  For a guy who just wants a job that he doesn't take home at night and doesn't aspire to run his own company, earning upwards of $60.00 an hour with plenty of overtime after 4 or 5 years isn't such a terrible deal.  I can't speak for all trades, but in mine there is no question that the journeyman's earning potential is well into 6 figures.

 

[eurowing]

I would agree with the program as well.  My brother is a carpenter who consistently made much more money than I over my 33 year career. He actually decided to take a break from carpentry and apprenticed as a scaffolder in Fort McMoney. IIRC, I was making around 72K a year as a WO, supervising 40 people maintaining aircraft,  my brother pulled in 90K, as an apprentice!  My son-in-law is a scaffolder as well, when we compared wages he was taken aback, stating he didn't ever remember making so little. 

Construction pays well.  Good luck to the program.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

People need to change their mindset. For years everyone's been told that if you don't have a professional white collar job (doctor, lawyer, etc) and a university degree you were nothing and no one would hire you. That kind of thinking gutted the skilled trades.

No one, now, can find plumbers, electricians, masons, metal cutters, carpenters, cabinet makers and the list goes on.

All the above and any other 'working with your hands' trades are all viable and honourable professions that need people and support. The program should be expanded to cover all of these.

 

[PuckChaser]

For a guy who just wants a job that he doesn't take home at night and doesn't aspire to run his own company, earning upwards of $60.00 an hour with plenty of overtime after 4 or 5 years isn't such a terrible deal.  I can't speak for all trades, but in mine there is no question that the journeyman's earning potential is well into 6 figures.

And skilled trades are all goal-oriented, and rewarded with how hard you work. A lot of military members would find this attractive as opposed to working with some parts of the public service on priority hire, and then have to deal with the red-tape they hated for the 25 years they served.

 

[dogger1936]

And skilled trades are all goal-oriented, and rewarded with how hard you work. A lot of military members would find this attractive as opposed to working with some parts of the public service on priority hire, and then have to deal with the red-tape they hated for the 25 years they served.

Thats a very good point.

 

[exabedtech]

And skilled trades are all goal-oriented, and rewarded with how hard you work. A lot of military members would find this attractive as opposed to working with some parts of the public service on priority hire, and then have to deal with the red-tape they hated for the 25 years they served.

They sure are!  I was 21 years in the army, released 3B, took a public service job and found that I hated working with less challenge, less opportunity and a fixed pay rate that worked the same for me as it did for the CE guy sleeping all day in a barrack TV room - yes, I was CE. 
My trade gave me the opportunity to really change the direction of my life for the better rather than settling down into a semi-retired state at only 41 years old. 
For some guys, Public service is the way to go and I hate to put it down, but you better not be an ambitious sort of person if that's where you hope to be.  No doubt someone on here has had some amazing experiences with a 6 figure paying PS job but we all know that that is the very very slim minority of available opportunities.
For a guy who likes a challenge, likes to work with his/her hands and likes to see an end product you can be proud of at the end of the job, the trades offer a lot of opportunity.  Suggest you brush up on the math/physics at the army's expense first though!!!

 

[Pusser]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about combat arms soldiers having zero transferable "trades". Not many lav commander jobs in North Sydney like a EME,clerk, wpns tech would have.

This is the attitude that needs to be corrected.  Far too often we tend to read too much into the idea of "experience" and "training."  Yes, there is job specific experience and training, and sometimes that is required, but more often than not, any and all experience and training can be useful and helpful.  Anybody who can troubleshoot a jammed GPMG and get it working again under fire, is probably also pretty good at troubleshooting equipment on a construction site....

 

[GnyHwy]

No one, now, can find plumbers, electricians, masons, metal cutters, carpenters, cabinet makers and the list goes on.

This is very true.  I have seen, heard and read many articles about this in the past 10years or so; it is quite a vacuum.  Ever since my days in high school in the 80s, most persons have sought after either white collar or CPU type careers and it was only the "dumb" guys that learned a trade.  Those few dumb guys are now few and far between and could probably charge pretty much whatever they want for their services. 

Anyone who has tried to get a contractor in for a relatively small job can testify to how long it takes to get them in; which is why the unaccredited "handyman" types are plentiful.

 

 

[The Bread Guy]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about combat arms soldiers having zero transferable "trades". Not many lav commander jobs in North Sydney like a EME,clerk, wpns tech would have.

This is the attitude that needs to be corrected.  Far too often we tend to read too much into the idea of "experience" and "training."  Yes, there is job specific experience and training, and sometimes that is required, but more often than not, any and all experience and training can be useful and helpful.  Anybody who can troubleshoot a jammed GPMG and get it working again under fire, is probably also pretty good at troubleshooting equipment on a construction site....

Indeed - there's an awful lot of work ethic, team participation and problem solving skills that come with soldiering that can be applied to loads of other workplaces.  Think of them as "generic work skills" as opposed to "specific military task skills".

No one, now, can find plumbers, electricians, masons, metal cutters, carpenters, cabinet makers and the list goes on.

All the above and any other 'working with your hands' trades are all viable and honourable professions that need people and support. The program should be expanded to cover all of these.

+100 - we need some people to work at desks, but we also critically need people to build, make and fix things.

 

[DirtyDog]

... I think the average CF vet is overqualified for construction jobs and it would be a step backwards for some?

I believe you have deep misconceptions of the "construction" industry.  I know a lot of truly intelligent and dynamic people in the trades and it's difficult to finder harder workers.
Also, I'm not sure to which group in particular you to reffer to when you speak of "vets", whether is it's the 20-30 year retirees or those who've just finished a 3-6 year stint?  In the case of the latter, i beleive you overestimate a lot of them as well.l  Truly, there are some extremely competent folks in that lot, but few of them, especially in the NCM ranks, would I say moving onto a professional tradesmen job would be a step backwards.

I think too many people think of the average construction worker as some dude turning signs on the highway or slopping muck out of a ditch.  I know a lot of people in the military, especially the younger generation that would find it difficult keeping at it day in and day out without the generous holidays and, at times, forgiving schedules, that the CF affords.  In peace time garrisons, 10-14 hour days with short breaks is typically unheard of.  I know a lot of trademens putting in long hours, day in day out, either for themselves or for an employer, and have been doing so for years.  They get well compensated believe me, but it demands a serious work ethic as well in a lot of cases significant professional competence.  Not only from a work ethic standpoint, but dynamic, hands-on thinking with a strong dose of techinical knowledge is a requirement to succeed in a lot of trades today as well.  Not all soldiers possess that....

 

[DirtyDog]

Then an aprenticeship program in the construction industry is a good option for a good paying second career for those short on transferable skills. I've been seeing alot of negative reactions to this on Facebook as well and i don't understand the objections.

Too many misconceptions.  I left the industry to serve.  6 years down the road and more than a few rank levels, I'm not anywhere neare where I used to be in pay and believe it or not, have not encountered many of the challenges and accomplishments that went along with it.

I want to return to the industry sooner than later, this time into a little more specialized and technical trade with the goal of my running my own business, and the last 6 years has been a huge boon to me on a personal and professional development front.  I'm eagerly awaiting the meat and potatoes of this program.

 

[DirtyDog]

I think many of the objections are due to the fact that it's the same thing offered to civilians as well...just a "rebranding" of sorts to make it appear any different than whats being offered to high school students. I also think much of the confusion lays in the fact most of our injured from our past decade of war fighting would stay in the military if they were fit enough to work construction. I started off in construction prior to the military in construction...and that aint easy work on the body. Add in a bunch of injuries not a really great place for a injured soldier to be.

Not all construction work is demanding on the body and I didn't think this program was really intended as one for our wounded vets.

I do agree however about the "rebranding'.  It doesn't seem to differ much from the subsidies already in place for apprenticeship programs and what not.  I guess we'll see....

 

[McG]

... I didn't think this program was really intended as one for our wounded vets.

I think you are correct.  This is a program for all veterans.  In other words, it is aimed as much at the wounded as it is aimed at the guy completing his first engagement and deciding to move to some other pasture.  At a time when many of our own construction engineering trades are hurting, I hope this new program does not start competing to heavily for healthy, capable pers who might otherwise have considered an alternate career within the CF.

 

[GAP]

I think you are correct.  This is a program for all veterans.  In other words, it is aimed as much at the wounded as it is aimed at the guy completing his first engagement and deciding to move to some other pasture.  At a time when many of our own construction engineering trades are hurting, I hope this new program does not start competing to heavily for healthy, capable pers who might otherwise have considered an alternate career within the CF.

I think you will find that guys completing their first engagement and deciding to move to some other pasture probably wouldn't have stayed in. This program at least allows an alternative to putting him/her on the street and saying "have at it". It gives direction.

 

[ModlrMike]

I can't help but echo what Mike Rowe said:

"We talk about millions of shovel ready jobs for a society that doesn't really encourage picking up a shovel."

If this program helps to reverse that trend, the it's worth it. In addition, if it provides direction and an alternative for newly released or retired members, the it's also worth it.

 

[DirtyDog]

Just about everyone I know in a skilled trade (and it's a lot) are doing very well for themselves and have done so from a young age without being saddled with any student loan debt.  some of the more forward thinking guys I know will have their homes payed off before they hit 30 and still enjoy a comfortable lifestyle with all the toys guys their age are into.