Haven't We Done The "Target" Recruiting Before?

[chris_log]

But on the other hand: food for thought. There are lies, bloody lies and then statistics; but with enrollment at 95% that does say something about the prevailing winds so to speak. I am not ranting here, just getting dialogue going. And just for the record, I am not implying that the CF has an anti-non-caucasian theme or anything like that. I would like to hear what serving members opinions are. You guys rock  

95% though, that is almost a 1 to 1 correlation... It says something, I just don't know what; and that is what I am trying to figure out before I sign the dotted line.

No. I do not think anyone would refuse to follow orders, not ever. I just think that some people might not like taking orders from an "Indian" and get to talking, and somehow something negative could come of it. Call me paranoid, or call me cautious. Either way, before I jump in a hornets nest, I want to have an idea as to how many hornets are in the nest... 

There could be a multitude of reasons why the CF is still very, for lack of a better term, 'white'. Who cares? We have black, asian, sikh, middle eastern, muslim, jewish, gay and native (to name a few) soldiers. Everyone's green (to use that old cliche).

 

[greentoblue]

To Oblique Order (nice handle by the way - sums up some directives I've seen)

Without knowing anything about you but what you've written I can honestly say that in the military today race/gender is not a factor in the day to day life/duties of an officer.  (Maybe at the senior officer level and if I ever get there I'll let you know.) I've often been the only or one of a handful of visible minority officers on courses, deployments/exercises and in my home units and it has never been brought up.  And I have never seen anyone hesitate to take or execute an order from me.  Would it be nicer to have more visible minorities in the military - sure.  But more importantly - we are so busy right now that the only thing that counts is ability.  If you can do the job - whatever trade that is - that is what matters.  Otherwise, if the military was hesitant about giving minorities command appointments or commissions we would not have (from what I have personally seen and based on ethnic origins) Indo fighter and helicopter pilots; Indo artillery officer (Instructor in Gunnery); Korean surface warfare officer; Muslim Arab naval officer; Chinese Master Warrant Officer (Transport); Chinese JTF2 assaulter (commissioned to officer last I heard); Jamacian tank officer; Chilean air traffic control major; Chilean logistics officer;... the list goes on.  By no means am I a "system" guy - you should hear me in the mess sometime but:

In other words- if this is the career you want and you can meet the standards that are set for everybody - nothing is holding you back but yourself.

 

[Oblique Order]

Thanks green to blue, I took the handle from Virtues of War, Steven Pressfield. Thanks for the post as well. My family had some valid concerns, thus my post.

 

[2 Cdo]

So who here would take orders from a "Native"? Who here would follow a "Native" into combat? Who here thinks the army a "meritocracy"?

I have recieved an offer for Officer training. I have no criminal record, I have no financial difficulties, I have a University Degree, and I can kick some a** to boot. I work in the Oil Patch in a head office. So my question is to ask you on this forum for an Honest No Bull-sh** assessment of how a person of First-Nation decent, that meets all current standards the same as anyone else, would do in today's CF.

I want to fight for my country. I want to excel as a combat leader. I want to kick the crap out of our enemies. I don't want to be "that Indian guy." I do not want to deal with soldiers not following my orders because they don't like "Indians", and I do not want to be passed over for promotions because whoever is above me is racist. It does happen. Trust me.

So in as far as that kind of stuff happens to everyone, sure, I know that the world is unfair. But, how hospitable is the CF to First Nations? I would rather not waste my time and dread doing my duty and going into work in the morning because of racist BS. I would hate to be in a 9-year contract to a place where I was discriminated against solely on the basis of skin colour. As a civy I can always quit my job and take an offer to a place where I would recieve better treatment.

Facing a 95% population that may or may not take kindly to my skin colour can be like walking through a minefield where I have a 5% chance of success. Not quite the best odds... Would any of you say that my analogy holds? Or not? Why?

Your honesty and sincerity are appreciated

Hundreds if not thousands of natives have served with distinction and some have risen up the chain of command. None of the natives that I have served with in leadership positions ever had someone "not following orders" because they were native. If you are honest, hard-working, and fair you will have no problems!

 

[HollywoodHitman]

In a nutshell - the diversity piece makes for good press and a lofty but admirable goal. Whether we see it or not depends on so many things, many of which were identified in the posts above. Nice to have....Should have...But in reality, many people that come to this country are not culturally conditioned to serve...Others are....Make the military more appealing, we'll attract the RIGHT people, not all people.

One thing remains that will not go away in the near future....We havent been able to recruit the numbers we need for sustainment let alone growth and not only that, but our training system is being held together with gun tape....Not because we don't have good instructors, but simply not enough of them. Lets look at retention, increasing a person's want and need to stay in the game, and the rest will eventually come.

We can't train the people we have in a timely manner!

 

[gun runner]

You know,  all this has been a really great read.... but what the hell is the Forces coming to? What ever happened to "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT COLOUR WE ARE OUTSIDE, IN HERE WE ALL WEAR GREEN" In other words there is no colour in the Forces. Am I right? If the minorities of this nation CHOSE not to enlist, so what. This isn't the RCMP, we cannot have a Metis soldier weraing a bright red sash over the combat uniform during a manouver that could reveal that soldiers location! Am I right? The same goes for the other visible minorities listed. We're a profession of arms... not a damn melting pot used to make the powers that be feel better about what our image isn't, instead of what it really is..and should be. The uniforms of our Armed Forces serve a purpose, and should not be belittled for the sake of political correctness so that some GD thinktanker can get some sleep at night. Ubique

 

[medaid]

Oblique Order, just a nitpicking thing. Quit using the word "Indian" you're NOT "Indian". Members from the country of India or Hindustan are "Indian". They have quite a few  members from their community currently serving within the CF in different capacities; along with members from many other South Asian countries.

I am a minority serving in the CF in a leadership role. There aren't that many Chinese Officers in the CF, I've looked. I have never had someone disobey or refuse an order from me. Ever. If they do, my ethnicity would be the LAST thing that comes across their mind. It'll probably be "Damn! That guy's an idiot! He's gonna get us all killed! Frack him! We're NOT gonna go that way!"

Or words to that effect.

I've served with members who are Native, and trust me, at least for ME, what they are is of no difference to me.

Can you drill? Can you shoot? Are you willing to play ball when things get tough? If you're yes for all three then you're a brother/sister. If you're not a team player, I could give a less of a frack what you are. You are only useless in my eyes. Hope that helps.

 

[twistedcables]

As long as there is a theatre of operations, CF members, ethnic or otherwise, will keep proving their value.