Ground Designation

[armybuck041]

I think for the most part the CF is stuck halfway between Bosnia and Afghanistan.  It places unrealistic restrictions on movement and when you do have to move off of the 'trace' suddenly you have to take 2 engineers with you.  A fine Canadian example of SOP's becoming and controlling doctrine rather than doctrine determining SOP's.

Agree'd....

The current FOM and Ground Designation process needs to be overhauled to realistically conduct Combat Operations. We ran into many situations during my time on Athena where the FOM process and the Tactical Situation didn't meet eye to eye. Trying to covertly establish Op's and insert Snipers while still following the Ground Designation process is almost impossible. There are options such as "Remote Designation" where ground is opened based on Map Recce, Imagery and Mine Data Base Data without having set a foot on the ground. To the best of my knowledge, no Task Force Commander on Athena has signed off on this type of Designation for anything except for Paved Roads. I predict that the current SOP's will be a serious issue for TF 3-06 mobility..... Unless your in the JTF    

 

[Unknown Factor]

We ran into many situations during my time on Athena where the FOM process and the Tactical Situation didn't meet eye to eye. Trying to covertly establish Op's and insert Snipers while still following the Ground Designation process is almost impossible. 

Exactly, many planned ops were in the end cancelled because of this very fact.

To the best of my knowledge, no Task Force Commander on Athena has signed off on this type of Designation for anything except for Paved Roads.

This is probably still true! and in my experience Commanders are very reluctant to accept the risks based on a Remote Designation and give the green light regardless of how convincing your arguement that you are aware of the risks.  The day that a commander is willing to do so will be the day we finally see a commander earn his pay.

As for SOP's, they will be the death of this Army.  Regardless of the trade we now have leaders at all levels that all they know is the designated "SOP" (demonstrating that it is easier to memorize a drill rather than master the subject) and when placed in an unscripted scenario they suddenly have no idea how to respond.  You can SOP admin, drills and conduct but you can't SOP tactics.

 

[043]

Agree'd....

The current FOM and Ground Designation process needs to be overhauled to realistically conduct Combat Operations. We ran into many situations during my time on Athena where the FOM process and the Tactical Situation didn't meet eye to eye. Trying to covertly establish Op's and insert Snipers while still following the Ground Designation process is almost impossible. There are options such as "Remote Designation" where ground is opened based on Map Recce, Imagery and Mine Data Base Data without having set a foot on the ground. To the best of my knowledge, no Task Force Commander on Athena has signed off on this type of Designation for anything except for Paved Roads. I predict that the current SOP's will be a serious issue for TF 3-06 mobility..... Unless your in the JTF      

Armybuck,

Thats because you 23 guys are a bunch of pansies!!!!! HAHA Just kidding man, I feel your pain. At least on Roto I was given major latitude to go where I pleased especially on the LRP's with Recce Platoon. Like I have said before, the best days of my career are behind me now!

Chimo!

 

[armybuck041]

Armybuck,

Thats because you 23 guys are a bunch of pansies!!!!! HAHA Just kidding man, I feel your pain. At least on Roto I was given major latitude to go where I pleased especially on the LRP's with Recce Platoon. Like I have said before, the best days of my career are behind me now!

Chimo!

Latitude? Not much of that left in the SQMS on Roto III and i'll leave it at that. I'm starting to understand what you mean by your last comment. I'd much rather be rolling around in my Nyala "over there" then being back here with this day to day regimental chinese water torture.
 

 

[McG]

There are options such as "Remote Designation" where ground is opened based on Map Recce, Imagery and Mine Data Base Data without having set a foot on the ground. To the best of my knowledge, no Task Force Commander on Athena has signed off on this type of Designation for anything except for Paved Roads. I predict that the current SOP's will be a serious issue for TF 3-06 mobility.....

That is too bad.  Ground Designation is supposed to be a risk management tool for commanders (not a risk aversion tool).  In a directed operation, it should even be possible for the Comd to decide that the risk of a mine strike on certain ground is high but still designated it open/restricted on a RDGT because the risk of direct fire casualties or mission failure is increased if the ground is not used. 

Maybe we will see things change as we move from ATHENA to ARCHER.

 

[Unknown Factor]

Maybe we will see things change as we move from ATHENA to ARCHER.

Amen - we need the flexability now more than ever.