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GOFO Musical Chairs... LGen Frances Allen to be first female VCDS / LGen Rouleau shuffled

OldSolduer

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Thirty or so years ago - maybe close to 40 a young private in 2 VP did 30 days in the DB in Edmonton. He cleaned his act up, put in the work and in the early 2000s was the RSM of 2VP.
Would he be considered for any leadership position today? Hard to say.
 

FSTO

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Thirty or so years ago - maybe close to 40 a young private in 2 VP did 30 days in the DB in Edmonton. He cleaned his act up, put in the work and in the early 2000s was the RSM of 2VP.
Would he be considered for any leadership position today? Hard to say.
Maybe if we used the DB more, there would be the image out there that there are consequences for actions but afterwards there is also a path to redemption.
Right now there is neither.
 

Weinie

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Indeed, I have no firsthand knowledge, and I do believe in innocent until proven guilty. Though we aren’t even talking criminal here. You’ll note I’ve not opined on the likelihood that any individual or specific set of allegations against any particular officer is true. I am speaking, and I believe Max is speaking, to the broader crisis of confidence that has emerged in CAF senior leadership because of this ugly and unfortunate series of reports and allegations.

I am unable to form my own objective set of beliefs from firsthand or investigative knowledge. With that said, I’m not solely limited to what is said in the media. I also have the informed opinions of those more in the know who I do consider credible, yourself included. In the recent thread alleging issues with COMD MILPERSCOM:


I know who you are and what you do, so when you say something like that it carries enough weight that, if corroborated by other people that I trust, it’s enough for me to agree there’s maybe smoke and to watch with interest. Nowhere will you see me saying who set the fire, or even if there’s a flame. Of course this is not the first case that has ‘grown legs’ nor is it the second. The number of leaves-on-shoulders implicated in potentially credible allegations of this sort of stuff is enough to cause concern.

As to Max never having had much to say on the subject, the same can be said for many people. I’ve never seen this many key senior officers facing this kind of scrutiny or controversy before in the ‘Op Honour’ bucket. This is a pretty novel set of circumstances and of course raises concern. To have such concerns is fair. To suggest that expectations have changed over time is fair. To suggest that what defines credibility in 2021 differs from in 1995 is fair.

Your reply to me is remarkably hostile for what I though was a civil exchange between a couple of professionals on an ugly but important topic. While I was only ever a Sgt, and a reservist at that, my years in that uniform and as a very minor and utterly inconsequential leader in the profession of arms have instilled in me some pride, and some vested interest in how the institution fares. I have immediate family who are or were senior enough officers too. I care about how they might be seen.

I have no interest in a pointless squabble. So- respectfully, perhaps take a tactical pause here and decide if coming at me like that is warranted. I personally don’t think it was, and I’m a bit surprised and disappointed. But that’s ultimately up to you.
Bri, my apologies.
 

PPCLI Guy

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Thirty or so years ago - maybe close to 40 a young private in 2 VP did 30 days in the DB in Edmonton. He cleaned his act up, put in the work and in the early 2000s was the RSM of 2VP.
Would he be considered for any leadership position today? Hard to say.
I was his assisting officer. He was a Sgt at the time, came out of DB as a Private, and worked his way back up to being an RSM. A very impressive man in every sense of the word.
 

The Bread Guy

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Speaking of GOFO musical chairs - a bit of ... shuffling ...
... the Acting Chief of the Defence Staff announced the 2021 Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) General and Flag Officer (GOFO) senior appointments, promotions, and retirements. General Officers (Canadian Army and the Royal Canadian Air Force) and Flag Officers (Royal Canadian Navy) lead the CAF in defending our country’s values and interests, here at home and abroad. They share the responsibility for the stewardship of the entire institution, and for the profession of arms as a whole.

Every year permanent and temporary positions are created and removed. This year, the following permanent and temporary GOFO positions have been created to meet CAF operational requirements:
  • To steer and control the development and further evolution of joint combat systems within the CAF and the Department of National Defence (DND), a temporary position has been created which will be accountable to the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS) and in support of Canada’s Defence Policy, Strong, Secure, Engaged. This position will set the conditions for the execution of an approved joint combat systems solution, ultimately enhancing and expanding existing and future interoperability of the CAF. Lieutenant-General Michael Rouleau will be appointed to the new position as Strategic Advisor to the Chief of the Defence Staff on Future Capabilities, in Ottawa.
  • The CAF will be sending a General Officer to the United States to advise, monitor and assess the execution of joint and combined combat and crisis operations and planning throughout the United States Central Command (USCENTCOM) area of responsibility. Major-General Derek Macaulay will be appointed to the new position as the USCENTCOM Vice Director of Operations in Tampa, Florida.
  • To provide supervision and oversight of all Data, Innovation, Analytics Group business management functions including Public Affairs and Strategic Communications, Human Resources, Finance/Comptrollership, Business Planning and internal Data Analytics. Brigadier-General Christopher Zimmer will be promoted to Major-General and appointed Chief of Staff (Data, Innovation, Analytics) in Ottawa.
  • To provide supervision and oversight of Digital Enterprise Modernization activities, including the Defence Resource Business Modernization (DRMIS) Programme, as well as developing options for future programme or project portfolios for other Defence enterprise digital modernization efforts. Commodore Steven Thornton will be appointed Director General Digital Enterprise Modernization (DG DEM) in Ottawa.
  • To provide supervision and oversight of all corporate business management functions for the Chief of Combat Systems Integration, provide input into strategic direction for the development of DND/CAF plans, programs requirements and analysis related to the capital equipment procurement, Pan Domain Command and Control solutions, Operational Sustainment optimization, DND digital initiatives development and Professional Military Education oversight. Brigadier-General Keith Osmond will be appointed Deputy Chief of Combat Systems Integration in Ottawa.
  • The CAF will be sending a General Officer on a three-year rotation to NATO’s Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe to provide cross-cutting authority, direction and requirement setting at the strategic level for all project, maintain and sustain functions of logistics. Brigadier-General Carla Harding will be appointed Assistant Chief of Staff J4 (Logistics) in Casteau, Belgium.
This year, the following permanent and temporary GOFO positions have been removed:
  • CENTCOM J4 (MGen/RAdm)
  • NATO Mission Iraq (MGen/RAdm)
  • Queens University Fellowship (BGen/Cmdre)
  • Associate Director General - Data, Innovations and Analytics (BGen/Cmdre)
  • OPERATION IMPACT Military Liaison Team (BGen/Cmdre)
  • Maritime Component Command Deputy Chief of Staff Operations (BGen/Cmdre)
  • Combined Task Force 150 (BGen/Cmdre)
  • Permanent Mission New York (BGen/Cmdre)
Lieutenant-General Frances Allen is appointed as the new Vice Chief of the Defence Staff.

Lieutenant-General Omer Lavoie will retire from service. Major-General Jocelyn Paul will be promoted Lieutenant-General and be appointed Deputy Commander Allied Joint Force Command, in Naples Italy.

Major-General Guy Chapdelaine will retire from service and his responsibilities as the Canadian Armed Forces Chaplain General. Colonel Guy Belisle will be promoted Brigadier-General and appointed Chaplain General, in Ottawa ...
 

Haggis

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Who me? Just saying one can monumentally f3ck up as a junior soldier but reform is always possible
The new Special Advisor to the A/CDS has a conviction on his Conduct Sheet for one of the most common charges laid in the CAF. He immediately owned up, pled guilty, paid his fine and apologized to his troops. That's far more than many have done in similar circumstances.
 

SeaKingTacco

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I was his assisting officer. He was a Sgt at the time, came out of DB as a Private, and worked his way back up to being an RSM. A very impressive man in every sense of the word.
Over the years, I have had many subordinates who have had “digger time” in the DB in Edmonton. In every single case, they were much better members of the CAF afterwards. Many had addiction issues that were actually addressed in the DB. Others had personal issues that they received counselling for while in the DB.

In my opinion, we are far too quick to release people and should use the DB more, because it actually gets folks attention and fixes their problems- it is not all about yelling, drill and polishing garbage cans. People have, over the years come to misunderstand the role of the DB- it is not about punishment, it is about rehabilitating people. Removing a CO’s ability to sentence folks to detention in the next iteration of the NDA is not going to be a step forward.
 

dapaterson

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Individuals who accept responsibility and correct their behaviour are the sort who should be retained (generally).

Those permitted to act with impunity who don't "seek and accept responsibility", less so.
 

MJP

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Over the years, I have had many subordinates who have had “digger time” in the DB in Edmonton. In every single case, they were much better members of the CAF afterwards. Many had addiction issues that were actually addressed in the DB. Others had personal issues that they received counselling for while in the DB.

In my opinion, we are far too quick to release people and should use the DB more, because it actually gets folks attention and fixes their problems- it is not all about yelling, drill and polishing garbage cans. People have, over the years come to misunderstand the role of the DB- it is not about punishment, it is about rehabilitating people. Removing a CO’s ability to sentence folks to detention in the next iteration of the NDA is not going to be a step forward.
DB can be a great tool but we are also not here to solve every soldier's issues especially complex psychosocial issues. Nor should we accept severe conduct issues as one offs and allow people to go on some form of remedial measure and carry one.

There is a line between Johnny going to DB cause he is a bit of a rule breaker that ignored an order for the final time and the folks that are commiting NDA offences because of issues or there are other severe conduct issues at play. Having dealt with a few recently (including a one that went to DB), we make every effort to help soldiers with resources that most people don't have access to, and some to their credit do better but many don't succeed. If they don't improve we need to stop thinking that we need to keep everyone, I wish it was actually a bit easier of a process to get rid of folks. Not CO level delegations just a better streamlined DMCA 2 process.


I don't think you are saying that we are trying to keep everyone, rather you are pointing out that one of our historical tools has potential to assist some members in overcoming their issues. For a number of reasons usage of DB has declined to the point that it is essentially empty most of the time and I don't see it changing anytime in the near or distance future. In terms of context to this particular topic, I think the larger issue is past conduct that we as an institution have allowed over the years is coming home to roost. Some of them may have have breached NDA but the larger issue is that we allowed this conduct to happen (either by virtue of culture, omission, ignorance or pick your poison) and that conduct has tainted the institution. I don't think more DB would solve this issue considering that many of these people in the news currently matriculated when DB was used a more. Rather our culture has allowed this conduct to flourish and the CAF has not kept up with a changing society and societal norms and we have to deal with our inaction.

I am not blind to the fact that we are being held to a higher standard than many others (including some of our political masters) so there is a bit of hypocrisy at play.
 
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OldSolduer

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Over the years, I have had many subordinates who have had “digger time” in the DB in Edmonton. In every single case, they were much better members of the CAF afterwards. Many had addiction issues that were actually addressed in the DB. Others had personal issues that they received counselling for while in the DB.

In my opinion, we are far too quick to release people and should use the DB more, because it actually gets folks attention and fixes their problems- it is not all about yelling, drill and polishing garbage cans. People have, over the years come to misunderstand the role of the DB- it is not about punishment, it is about rehabilitating people. Removing a CO’s ability to sentence folks to detention in the next iteration of the NDA is not going to be a step forward.
The highlighted words are missing in the penal system in Canada. We don't rehab anyone - if we do its by sheer luck.

"Nothing ever goes as planned and if it does its purely accidental"
 

OceanBonfire

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Additions and changes announced today:

 

Jarnhamar

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Additions and changes announced today:

I'm not suggesting these senior appointments aren't important information.. but I get the feeling like the entire CAF is waiting for an update on Jon Vance. And Admiral McDonald. And the Major/s from Iraq that were repatriated. And the head of the intelligence school. And what's happening with General Dawe. And so on.
 

OldSolduer

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I'm not suggesting these senior appointments aren't important information.. but I get the feeling like the entire CAF is waiting for an update on Jon Vance. And Admiral McDonald. And the Major/s from Iraq that were repatriated. And the head of the intelligence school. And what's happening with General Dawe. And so on.
I'd worry less about him and a lot more about the aforementioned GOFOs
 
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