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Gathering Reservists in Borden

BDTyre

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Jarnhamar said:
Or people could sit on their bunks, eat junk food and play on their phones.

I don't even think they get the junk food luxury, unless they packed it with them.
 

daftandbarmy

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Jarnhamar said:
Unless the reserves plan on walking everywhere, doing any sort of task will mean members break the 6 or 10 foot rule.

I think it would be better to segregate them by section or platoon. That way they could also run low level training.

It's easy to be creative and write off ibts while doing relevant stuff. A month or longer of pt and white space? You could really get a lot done.

Or people could sit on their bunks, eat junk food and play on their phones.

I think you've just described an excellent Infantry training program right there :)
 

quadrapiper

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MilEME09 said:
Very good, they also have one person posted there year round as the RQ/care taker, the house they get is pretty nice. Barracks rooms are 2 to a room, classroom space is ample. Again due to not being winterized fire suppression system doesnt work in winter.

The area is used extensively for BMQ and BMQ(L) courses for dismounted ops, especially Navigation training. If they could just spend a few million to winterize all those buildings it would be a great year round facility. Heck its remote enough, build a rifle range and you could run BMQ's there without ever leaving the camp.
That is rather odd: would've almost understood leaving it as-is if the only notable users were cadets in the summer, but not when it's in real use year-round.
 

MilEME09

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quadrapiper said:
That is rather odd: would've almost understood leaving it as-is if the only notable users were cadets in the summer, but not when it's in real use year-round.

It is a very under utilized facility, if you Google rocky mountain cadet training facility, and go to photos, you can see a 360 degree shot from the parade square, and from the HQ building, a lot of potential for that place, Pres in the Calgary area could utilize it a lot more with a few upgrades.
 

Jarnhamar

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daftandbarmy said:
I think you've just described an excellent Infantry training program right there :)

With a snazzy sound track to boot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGkyhaMdpto
 

dangerboy

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MilEME09 said:
It is a very under utilized facility, if you Google rocky mountain cadet training facility, and go to photos, you can see a 360 degree shot from the parade square, and from the HQ building, a lot of potential for that place, Pres in the Calgary area could utilize it a lot more with a few upgrades.

It is a great little area. I was there this past Jan to observe a trial that was taking place there using winter equipment. Good area for dismounted winter exercise; and the view is just spectacular.
 

MJP

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CanadianTire said:
If they lack drivers I suppose they could get authorization to run people through as long as they observer proper precautions?

That is exactly the case.
 

PuckChaser

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Brihard said:
For G8/G20 we literally played 'on the bus, off the bus' with an actual bus. Someone thought our time would be well spent rehearsing that. We got a couple hours' notice to go and get on a bus, which then drove about an hour loop around Borden, then parked again and we all got off. Nothing more to it than that, we practiced a bus ride. It was tooneriffic.

You're lucky you just had to ride around on a bus. I got to set up the stupid CP about 20 times, including my personal favourite: Our "NTM test" after we were on task and effectively on call. The more times we set the CP up, the more things we broke. Icing on the cake was that NTM test we did (I think on the Friday morning?) after we went on call Thursday night, where half way through the move an actual task came down the pipe and the CO had to figure out how to get a Pl detached and sent to Huntsville. At least everything was packed up....
 

Quirky

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Jarnhamar said:

Just got a flashback to OP Podium in 2010. Our plane landed in Abbotsford, we were a mix of Army/Air Force. All the Army guys grabbed their ruck sacks and kit bags, some junior members were yelled at by various ranks, and tossed them into the back of large Army transport things, don’t know the technical term. Us Air Force grabbed our civy luggage, some brought golf clubs, threw it onto our charter bus which took us to downtown Vancouver and the cruise ship accommodation. I didn’t know where the Army guys went until I saw a buddy who came to check our generators at the airport. Told me they were all in tents at Aldergrove. Same job supporting the op, but completely different treatment. Pretty sure quite a few OTs went in after it was all over. You have to be really committed to the Army life, I would definitely not last long.
 
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stellarpanther

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Quirky said:
Just got a flashback to OP Podium in 2010. Our plane landed in Abbotsford, we were a mix of Army/Air Force. All the Army guys grabbed their ruck sacks and kit bags, some junior members were yelled at by various ranks, and tossed them into the back of large Army transport things, don’t know the technical term. Us Air Force grabbed our civy luggage, some brought golf clubs, threw it onto our charter bus which took us to downtown Vancouver and the cruise ship accommodation. I didn’t know where the Army guys went until I saw a buddy who came to check our generators at the airport. Told me they were all in tents at Aldergrove. Same job supporting the op, but completely different treatment. Pretty sure quite a few OTs went in after it was all over. You have to be really committed to the Army life, I would definitely not last long.

I take my hat off to those who are in the combat arms trades for doing what they do because while I liked doing some short field ex's when I was younger and in the Reserves, I know I wouldn't last long doing that stuff now.  I'm not even sure my body would tolerate sleeping on an air mattress or the ground. I look forward to my memory foam mattress every night.

 

ballz

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Quirky said:
Just got a flashback to OP Podium in 2010. Our plane landed in Abbotsford, we were a mix of Army/Air Force. All the Army guys grabbed their ruck sacks and kit bags, some junior members were yelled at by various ranks, and tossed them into the back of large Army transport things, don’t know the technical term. Us Air Force grabbed our civy luggage, some brought golf clubs, threw it onto our charter bus which took us to downtown Vancouver and the cruise ship accommodation. I didn’t know where the Army guys went until I saw a buddy who came to check our generators at the airport. Told me they were all in tents at Aldergrove. Same job supporting the op, but completely different treatment. Pretty sure quite a few OTs went in after it was all over. You have to be really committed to the Army life, I would definitely not last long.

The CAF really does need to do better on this front. On one hand the culture of the RCAF and RCN seem to just be completely flippant with taxpayer money when it comes to hotels/car rentals/etc (admittedly that could just be my Army side talking), and on the other hand the Army is so accustomed to being frugal that they often live far worse than required for no reason to the point of causing retention issues.

But it gets real ugly when they are mixed together. The last LENTUS we ended up sending troops to BC under JTFP, the RCN and CA pers were working side by side during the day. The RCN pers were staying in hotels and as a result also getting incidentals, the CA folks were staying on in a school gym I believe that's what it was) on cots and not receiving incidentals. This kind of stuff really does kill morale.
 
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stellarpanther

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ballz said:
The CAF really does need to do better on this front. On one hand the culture of the RCAF and RCN seem to just be completely flippant with taxpayer money when it comes to hotels/car rentals/etc (admittedly that could just be my Army side talking), and on the other hand the Army is so accustomed to being frugal that they often live far worse than required for no reason to the point of causing retention issues.

But it gets real ugly when they are mixed together. The last LENTUS we ended up sending troops to BC under JTFP, the RCN and CA pers were working side by side during the day. The RCN pers were staying in hotels and as a result also getting incidentals, the CA folks were staying on in a school gym I believe that's what it was) on cots and not receiving incidentals. This kind of stuff really does kill morale.

I've been in Ottawa for most of my career and haven't seen it first hand but have heard several people tell me just what you posted.  My question is what is the  reasoning for it?  Is it because they don't want the army guys getting to soft?  As you said it certainly does kill morale and I know stories like this are things release clerks here about.  Mind you I don't think it would be excepted if everyone was put on cots, it needs to be hotels for everyone.

 

dimsum

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ballz said:
The CAF really does need to do better on this front. On one hand the culture of the RCAF and RCN seem to just be completely flippant with taxpayer money when it comes to hotels/car rentals/etc (admittedly that could just be my Army side talking), and on the other hand the Army is so accustomed to being frugal that they often live far worse than required for no reason to the point of causing retention issues.

For the RCAF, at least for aircrew, the hotel situation is because of crew rest.  It is what it is now because of fatigue causing crashes and deaths. 

I'm not sure about the RCN, but the USN's crashes (USS Fitzgerald and McCain) probably got them thinking about fatigue and crew rest too. 

This is straying from the topic though.
 
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stellarpanther

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Thinking about some of the army stuff and the way things are in those units, I heard a story a couple years ago about two guys in the Navy volunteering for parade that to their surprise was being run b the RCR from Petawawa.  These two guys were walking down the road still drinking their coffee when they heard someone yelling at them and telling them to hurry the frig up.Since they were 20 minutes early, they ignored him and kept walking at a casual pace until this MCpl came up to their face and told them to move, they were both PO2's and words were exchanged but from what I heard that was the end of it.  They apparently came back to work a few days later saying that they now understand why people in the army are releasing because who in their right mind would put up with that everyday. 

Sorry, I'm bad for getting off topic!


 

MilEME09

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Dimsum said:
For the RCAF, at least for aircrew, the hotel situation is because of crew rest.  It is what it is now because of fatigue causing crashes and deaths. 

I'm not sure about the RCN, but the USN's crashes (USS Fitzgerald and McCain) probably got them thinking about fatigue and crew rest too. 

This is straying from the topic though.
How often do you think on the army side MSE safety is ignore in regards to max driving hours or required rest before driving? I have seen it plenty in 10 years
 
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stellarpanther

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MilEME09 said:
How often do you think on the army side MSE safety is ignore in regards to max driving hours or required rest before driving? I have seen it plenty in 10 years

Are CAF MSE drivers who are driving the 18 wheelers required to keep a logbook, have it inspected by MTO or even stop at the inspection stations?

 

AmmoTech90

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When I was in, our section did a lot of transport runs from Borden to Trenton and return meeting aircraft.  I (our section) paid for the MSE Ops to bunk down in Trenton either at the Yukon or on the economy depending on what was available and what time of night it was many times.  This was due to the aircraft being late and the drivers being out of hours.  So it is enforced.  Of course we did not have an operational need to make the run immediately, normally the cargo could overnight in Trenton if needed.
 

dimsum

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MilEME09 said:
How often do you think on the army side MSE safety is ignore in regards to max driving hours or required rest before driving? I have seen it plenty in 10 years

I'm sure it is.  That's not something to be proud of. 
 

MilEME09

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Dimsum said:
I'm sure it is.  That's not something to be proud of.

Wasn't saying it was, however we were on the topic of fatigue, and mitigation of it.
 
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