FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

[Zoomie]

How healthy is the Herc YFR of recent years?  Going down?  Treading water?

Dismal - most machines are heading to Cascade for parts.  The few we have per FWSAR squadron are being watched very carefully.  Not every day is a fly day.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Is there flyable hours left at the end of the year (would it help to have more tails)?

 

[YZT580]

The 390 has several advantages: range, speed and perhaps most of all, it is a new design not a re-working of 60's level technology as the other two are.  Perhaps the biggest disadvantage is in politics: Embraer is Bombardiers primary competition and giving a contract to the opposition has terrible optics

 

[RaceAddict]

The 390 has several advantages: range, speed and perhaps most of all, it is a new design not a re-working of 60's level technology as the other two are.  Perhaps the biggest disadvantage is in politics: Embraer is Bombardiers primary competition and giving a contract to the opposition has terrible optics

That would be like the USAF buying their tanker from Airbus.  :

 

[chuckt5]

Maybe (if they decide the KC390 is right for us) some kind of agreement could be made where both Embraer and Bombardier end up both being happy. We buy some Embraer product, Brazil some Bombardier.

The ability of the 390 to get on scene faster OR to carry a helo opens some interesting possibilities! Not to mention is load carrying and arial refueling abilities.

I'm not a 390 fanboy, but a jet powered SAR asset sounds interesting. I'll leave it up to the experts to decide.

 

[YZT580]

I'm not a 390 fanboy, but a jet powered SAR asset sounds interesting. I'll leave it up to the experts to decide.

In a perfect world perhaps, but here you will leave it to the politicians

 

[kev994]

There is no point buying an AAR capability until we know if our next fighter will use a boom or drogue.

 

[chuckt5]

Makes sense.

More info:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/rescue-required-canadas-searchandrescue-aircraft-program-03350/

 

[CougarKing]

Another update on Canada's SAR aircraft replacement program:

Air Recognition

Airbus DS and Provincial Aerospace join forces for Canada's SAR aircraft replacement program

Today, following the submission of their proposal for Canada’s Fixed Wing Search and Rescue (FWSAR) replacement program; Airbus Defence and Space and Provincial Aerospace formally announced the establishment of AirPro SAR Services (AirPro), Airbus DS announced on Jan. 12, 2016.
   
Airbus DS and Provincial Aerospace join forces for Canada s SAR aircraft replacement program 640 001Airbus Defence and Space submitted its C295W aircraft for Canada's new SAR aircraft requirement

(...SNIPPED)

 

[MarkOttawa]

Bids in--no Embraer KC390?

Jockeying underway for Canadian military search plane contract
http://globalnews.ca/news/2446922/jockeying-underway-for-canadian-military-search-plane-contract/

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Ostrozac]

Bids in--no Embraer KC390?

Yeah, on the surface it looks like Embraer didn't get approval to submit a prototype aircraft. There was speculation that the SOR as written specified that the aircraft already be in service, but I haven't actually read the document.

As it stands with the choices being Airbus C-295, Alenia C-27, and Lockheed Martin C-130J, I know that my money's on Lockheed Martin. But we'll have to see how the dice roll.

 

[Kirkhill]

Guessing it won't be the C-27J.  For the same reason the S-92 beat out the EH-101. 

 

[YZT580]

Too bad about the EMbraer.  IMHO it was the best out there, especially for a landmass the size of Canada.  Of the alternatives, I think I too would vote for the C130.  It has the best range of the three options and we already have the infrastructure in place to support it and the crews to man it and training is simplified.

 

[kev994]

C130 is going to be too expensive to be competitive IMHO.

 

[MarkOttawa]

YZT580; kev994: LockMart does seem rather a Canadian defence octopus--RCN section:

1) A/OPS:
http://www.lockheedmartin.ca/ca/news-events/strengthening-canadascapabilityinthearcticlockheedmartincanadaaw.html

2) CSC (very likely the CSI):
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/amd-dp/mer-sea/snac-nsps/prequalification-eng.html

3) On-going frigates' FELEX:
http://www.lockheedmartin.com/ca/news-events/lockheed-martin-canadamstcelebratesthemodernizationofthefirstfou.html

Big company puff-piece:
http://www.lockheedmartin.ca/content/dam/lockheed/data/canada/documents/CDR_Article.pdf

Then there's the F-35...
http://milnet.ca/forums/threads/22809.3325.html

Though the Jerc, esp. with the transport capability, would be sweet for FWSAR--note this about transport, not said publicly since as far as I've seen:

...
The origins of the FWSAR project began in the late 1990s, but it wasn't until September 2003 that it took on a higher profile when then chief of the defence staff Gen. Ray Henault announced it was the top equipment priority for the Canadian Forces.

That was followed by the commitment from the Liberal government in the spring of 2004 to fast-track the purchase. A competition would be held in September of that year, with the first of the 15 aircraft to be delivered sometime in 2006.

There were two top contenders. Alenia North America was offering the Canadian Forces the C-27J aircraft, while Airbus Military/KADS, through its CASA subsidiary, was intending to bid with its C-295.

Air force Col. Dave Burt, director of aerospace requirements, said at the time that search and rescue was the priority, adding that the service wanted "something that is smaller and (more) cost efficient than a Hercules but still has some of the transport type qualities that a Hercules has."..
https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-278081197.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Zoomie]

Spartan and to a limited degree the CASA both have transport capability.  Herc has too much wasted space IMO - Buff is cramped with the SAR load on board - a happy medium would be best.

 

[YZT580]

CASA has no range with any kind of a payload on board and it is 60 knots slower than Spartan.  For both of them, any response from YTR north would require a fuel stop before being able to effect any search pattern but at least the Spartan can carry a good load going there. 

 

[dapaterson]

C130 is going to be too expensive to be competitive IMHO.

If it's acquire + operate, their advantage of a single fleet may push them ahead - fewer sims required; economy of scale in training, spares and repair & overhaul; greater fleet flexibility...

 

[McG]

If it's acquire + operate, their advantage of a single fleet may push them ahead - fewer sims required; economy of scale in training, spares and repair & overhaul; greater fleet flexibility...

Did the RFP describe selection criteria that would give points for these advantages?

 

[RaceAddict]

If it's acquire + operate, their advantage of a single fleet may push them ahead - fewer sims required; economy of scale in training, spares and repair & overhaul; greater fleet flexibility...

Wasn't that one of the main selling points of the C-27J? The shared powerplants and avionics with the C-130J were supposed to make the Spartan the perfect complimentary aircraft for anyone that already had Hercs.