Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

[Kirkhill]

Maybe that starts with regulating how much American content can be aired in Canada, similar to how music is played. Although, things like Netflix would probably negate those efforts. Maybe if our media is going to focus on foreign countries it should be Westminster ones like the UK, Australia, and New Zealand. I'm not saying that CANZUK would fix all our problems....

Wrong answer.

Censorship is never the right answer.

Sorry.

 

[Kilted]

Wrong answer.

Censorship is never the right answer.

Sorry.

That's not censorship, that promoting Canadian content. It's already done for radio stations.

 

[brihard]

There definitely needs to be more civics education. I also did the Ontairo grade 10 civics class- it was a half credit, so it shared a one semester class with Career Studies. I just took a look at the current Ontario curriculum and it doesn't look like it's changed a great deal. Past grade 10 there's no mandatory study in law or politics. I personally did end up taking university prep law courses in grades 11 and 12, which I think served me pretty well, but most students won't.

It wouldn't be a terrible thing if there were another mandatory course giving grade 12 students more insight into Canadian federal and provincial civics in their last year of school, shortly before they can begin voting...

Canada has a massive deficit in Canadians' understanding of governmental institutions, how power transfers, how law is made and enforced... This needs to be addressed.

 

[Kirkhill]

That's not censorship, that promoting Canadian content. It's already done for radio stations.

With respect - if you are deciding how many hours are to be devoted to Cause A then you are deciding how many hours Cause B can't have. That is a form of censorship when you are talking about a public platform. Far better, especially when talking about public, rather than private, platforms to let the aggrieved vent.

 

[Kirkhill]

There definitely needs to be more civics education. I also did the Ontairo grade 10 civics class- it was a half credit, so it shared a one semester class with Career Studies. I just took a look at the current Ontario curriculum and it doesn't look like it's changed a great deal. Past grade 10 there's no mandatory study in law or politics. I personally did end up taking university prep law courses in grades 11 and 12, which I think served me pretty well, but most students won't.

It wouldn't be a terrible thing if there were another mandatory course giving grade 12 students more insight into Canadian federal and provincial civics in their last year of school, shortly before they can begin voting...

Canada has a massive deficit in Canadians' understanding of governmental institutions, how power transfers, how law is made and enforced... This needs to be addressed.

In full agreement.

And, again, I would argue, the tying of the courses to History. Warts and all. Because how can we understand why these rules are in place if we don't understand the contexts in which they originated. Otherwise they can appear arbitrary and confused. And that is not a great way to build respect for the law and the system. Or build an understanding as to how to change the rules while working within the system.

 

[brihard]

In full agreement.

And, again, I would argue, the tying of the courses to History. Warts and all. Because how can we understand why these rules are in place if we don't understand the contexts in which they originated. Otherwise they can appear arbitrary and confused. And that is not a great way to build respect for the law and the system. Or build an understanding as to how to change the rules while working within the system.

Yup, agreed. Our system has been very, very good for a lot of people. It did so, at times, on the backs of others. We need to be honest about the shitty things that have happened as state policy, partly to fix what can be fixed and partly to avoid it happening again. Part of meaningfully teaching on democracy has to include an acknowledgment and exploration of how it took a long time for our franchise to become as inclusive as it is now.

 

[Good2Golf]

I'll just note that the National Security and Intelligence Review Agency does report to Parliament, and is intended to complement the work of the NSICOP.

As an independent agency reporting to Parliament, perhaps it may be seen to be less vulnerable to potential partisan abuse or political interference.

National Security and Intelligence Review Agency

nsira-ossnr.gc.ca

Not unreasonable, IFF (in the Comp Sci/Eng sense of ‘IF & ONLY IF’) NSIRA has access to the interacted Parliamentary Report on the 2022 Use of the Emergencies Act and other related, potentially classified material.

I don’t think the senate should get in the way of government agenda but they should return bad legislation and things like unnecessary motions like the EA.

By ‘get in the way’ do you mean that the Senate inclusion in the approval process of the Emergencies Act should be removed?

To me the big problem is people who cant delineate our government structure, electoral system, legislation and laws from the Americans.

Delta between Canada and America is less of a concern IMO, than Canadians even knowing the characteristics of their own Government (executive), Parliament (representative and legislative) and the Courts (judiciary).

 

[Remius]

There definitely needs to be more civics education. I also did the Ontairo grade 10 civics class- it was a half credit, so it shared a one semester class with Career Studies. I just took a look at the current Ontario curriculum and it doesn't look like it's changed a great deal. Past grade 10 there's no mandatory study in law or politics. I personally did end up taking university prep law courses in grades 11 and 12, which I think served me pretty well, but most students won't.

It wouldn't be a terrible thing if there were another mandatory course giving grade 12 students more insight into Canadian federal and provincial civics in their last year of school, shortly before they can begin voting...

Canada has a massive deficit in Canadians' understanding of governmental institutions, how power transfers, how law is made and enforced... This needs to be addressed.

I went to French school outside Quebec. We studied politics and civics a lot. Of course it was heavily slanted from a francophone point of view but it was still a good education in our institutions and especially their history.

 

[GK .Dundas]

So very much yes!!
What this country really needs is a decent civics course !
I have worked elections as security for civic,provincial and federal levels. I can tell you horror stories.

 

[Remius]

By ‘get in the way’ do you mean that the Senate inclusion in the approval process of the Emergencies Act should be removed?

quite the opposite.

What I meant is, that the senate should not impede legislation derived from an elected government agenda that was campaigned on or voted on. I’d prefer it still use checks and balances but not be some sort of roadblock along political lines.

They should absolutely be involved in something like the EA or potentially bad legislation. That is what I would like to see them do and become relevant again.

 

[Scott]

Pat King taking some civics classes sounds like something for our own dear academics here to take charge of.

 

[FormerHorseGuard]

One of the biggest issues of this protest was the fact the protesters had and have no clue how Canadian Government works, how and what laws are applied in Canada.

Example, you cannot call the Governor General's office and ask her to change the ruling government because we do not like how they do things. We do not have a citizen recall system in place. We have to wait for an election or confidence vote to take place.

In Ontario if you are pulled over by Police for any reason while driving you must produce ID and a driver's license, proof of ownership and insurance. It is in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act. Passengers do not have to show ID, also in the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.

We do not have the 5th Amendment right, we do not have a Bill of Rights and Freedoms in Canada. We have the Constitution Of Canada, with the Charter of Rights. Right to bear Arms, is an American thing and those rights end at the border, we do not have Bail Enforcement Officers with more powers than Police in Canada.

Most Canadians do not know their rights.

American Rights after arrest
You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. Anything you say may be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future.

Canadian rights after arrest

The Canadian Charter warning reads (varies by police service): "You are under arrest for _________ (charge); do you understand? You have the right to retain and instruct counsel without delay. We will provide you with a toll-free telephone lawyer referral service, if you do not have your own lawyer.

Very different rights if you read them and understand them.

The mandates the Protesters wanted changed were a lot of Provincial Powers not Federal Powers

Health care and such falls under the mandate of the Provinces, so asking the Federal Government to toss the mask rules is not in their powers.

Border Crossing rules are a Federal jurisdiction, but Canada only controls the rules once you step across the border, Canada cannot change the rules in another Country.

The Ambassador Bridge, it is one of a few privately owned border crossings in North America. It is a Private business. Blocking it can be a trespassing issue.

In the States the Governor can call up the State National Guard to help with law enforcement. Mayors can request the National Guard.

In Canada the Provinces can request or requisition Canadian Armed Forces to assist in emergency situations, but they cannot be used in law enforcement roles unless the Federal Government enacts the Emergency Powers Act.

These sort of things need to be taught in school, and need to be explained in simple terms so the average person without a law degree can understand the basics.

I remember following a court case in the UK and the person was requesting their 5th Amendment rights and the UK judge had to explain that his courtroom was not in the USA and was not the TV show Law and Order. The person should speak with his lawyer before he says anything more on the stand.

Just because you see it on tv, does not make it right. Just because you heard an explanation of the law, does not mean that is the law of the land you are in. Just because you want something changed does not mean you waving a sign and honking a horn will make it happen.

Side note

The Government of Canada has 2 hammers in its tool box called the Emergency Power Act. This time the government picked the smaller hammer. The police once given proper marching orders, handled the situation very well. No one was shot, no one was killed, every one arrested was treated properly and given a hearing in a timely manner or released.

No one was frozen by the use of water canons like they use in Europe, no one was run over by tanks , no one strip searched on the side of the road. Everyone was treated fairly.
just my opinions
opie

 

[suffolkowner]

There are just way too many elective courses available in high school. They divert resources away from the core responsibilities especially since there are only 4 years now in some kind of pathetic attempt at tempting people to remain in school and graduate

 

[Remius]

There are just way too many elective courses available in high school. They divert resources away from the core responsibilities especially since there are only 4 years now in some kind of pathetic attempt at tempting people to remain in school and graduate

Civics should start before high school.

 

[Spencer100]

Side note

The Government of Canada has 2 hammers in its tool box called the Emergency Power Act. This time the government picked the smaller hammer. The police once given proper marching orders, handled the situation very well. No one was shot, no one was killed, every one arrested was treated properly and given a hearing in a timely manner or released.

No one was frozen by the use of water canons like they use in Europe, no one was run over by tanks , no one strip searched on the side of the road. Everyone was treated fairly.
just my opinions
opie

No they used the BIGGEST hammer of them all. Control of the financial system. That is the real big gun. Control of money and data. Data is the power. CSIS paid the hacker to get the names. Data to CRA cross reference to the Banks, insurance and others with the RCMP. No court orders, no oversight, and no transparency.

 

[Remius]

Ah so CSIS told you that eh?

 

[Kirkhill]

Yup, agreed. Our system has been very, very good for a lot of people. It did so, at times, on the backs of others. We need to be honest about the shitty things that have happened as state policy, partly to fix what can be fixed and partly to avoid it happening again. Part of meaningfully teaching on democracy has to include an acknowledgment and exploration of how it took a long time for our franchise to become as inclusive as it is now.

As a Professional (Occasional) Scot I find the 1619 debate in the States interesting.

I offer 1606 - courtesy of a Scottish King and a Scottish Parliament

Liberating Scotland's "slaves of the soil"

The dark labour history of Scottish coal mines

magazine.cim.org

Colliers and Salters (Scotland) Act 1775 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It took until 1799 before Scottish miners, and their families, were liberated from permanent indenture (ie slavery)

This was despite findings in England in 1569 that England didn't recognize slavery (Cartwright's Russian), in 1772 (Somersett Case) and in Scotland in 1778 (Knight Case). Even in Upper Canada, Simcoe abolished slavery before the Scots miners were ultimately "freed" - to become wage-slaves.

In fairness to the James the Sixth - he was only following English law. England had allowed English Vagabonds to be enslaved since 1547 (although permanent indenture sounds better). And then there was that Press Gang stuff the RN did... but I'm wandering too much now.

 

[Good2Golf]

What I meant is, that the senate should not impede legislation derived from an elected government agenda that was campaigned on or voted on. I’d prefer it still use checks and balances but not be some sort of roadblock along political lines.

But the EA legislation is clear; ie. both Houses are required for approval of the Declaration:

• 58 (1) Subject to subsection (4), a motion for confirmation of a declaration of emergency, signed by a minister of the Crown, together with an explanation of the reasons for issuing the declaration and a report on any consultation with the lieutenant governors in council of the provinces with respect to the declaration, shall be laid before each House of Parliament within seven sitting days after the declaration is issued.

 

[Brad Sallows]

The Government of Canada has 2 hammers in its tool box called the Emergency Power Act. This time the government picked the smaller hammer. The police once given proper marching orders, handled the situation very well. No one was shot, no one was killed, every one arrested was treated properly and given a hearing in a timely manner or released.

No one was frozen by the use of water canons like they use in Europe, no one was run over by tanks , no one strip searched on the side of the road. Everyone was treated fairly.
just my opinions

There are at least 3 hammers; one is "ordinary powers". The police don't shoot anyone, people are arrested properly and given hearings etc, no-one gets run over by tanks, etc. Governments use ordinary powers pretty much all the rest of the time, dealing with much more serious crimes committed by activists, protestors, domestic terrorists, etc.

Governments created their own misfortunes by not reacting appropriately and in a timely fashion with the powers they already had (which have been used successfully in the past, and were in some cases eventually used successfully this time). Then the essence of their argument was: "(because we f*cked this up,) we need emergency powers now", only they left out the first part. And the essential aims could all have been met without resorting to declaring an emergency. And "we f*cked this up" isn't an excuse. It just means they need to suck up their failures and work harder.

 

[Kirkhill]

quite the opposite.

What I meant is, that the senate should not impede legislation derived from an elected government agenda that was campaigned on or voted on. I’d prefer it still use checks and balances but not be some sort of roadblock along political lines.

They should absolutely be involved in something like the EA or potentially bad legislation. That is what I would like to see them do and become relevant again.

The Senate, should be able to trigger an election, with the consent of the Commons, if they return the bill to the Commons for reconsideration. All the Commons would have to do would be pass a motion of Non-Confidence in the government.

But they can do that already can't they?

We really shouldn't be afraid of elections, or consider them an imposition or unnecessary expense. I would like to see them happen frequently. Until the government (of any stripe) starts to understand it is important to work with the people and not across them.