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Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

PuckChaser

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I can’t read your mind correct but can read what you post. You provided whataboutism. Simple.

Someone posts a Nazi flag. Someone says that’s awful and that turns into a diatribe on the left and Trudeau. Lol.

I’ve been watching this thing all day. And I get some people don’t follow the MSM but the whole narrative today is that the protest is peaceful with a few bad actors. Literally the same stuff posted here.

The CDS, MND, even O’toole have all tested and made statements about these bad actors. They are calling them out.

I see no issue with this.

So I don’t know where you assume I have some bias that I can’t see what everyone else is seeing.
How many Hail Mary's do we need to condemn morons? You're wasting bandwidth on human beings who have demonstrated they're not worth it. The entire focus of the debate on this forum has been folks like yourself who focus on the bad actors, to build a narrative. The same narrative Trudeau wants that they're all bad people and unCanadian. Maybe if we actually just listened to what is a massive protest by Parliament Hill standards, we'd get somewhere.

Or you can allow mandates to carry on, that will expand to include whatever flavour of the day is. I have still yet to see any scientific evidence that a vaccine passport has any effect on reduction of COVID-19 transmission (especially in light of Omicron), and the Government who is mandating these restrictions hasn't produced it.
 

Fishbone Jones

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Yes. That will make it a-l-l-l better.
So you don't like people voicing suggestions that go against your status quo. Instead of voicing a logical alternative or defending our current setup, you dismiss it with sarcasm. Let's just keep trudging down that same old path that is a shambles. The country is in chaos, divided and broke. Our government is a cruel joke. Your system seems to be working so well. I don't know if a Republic is the way to go, but I'm willing to discuss it instead of off handedly dismissing it without merit.
 

Remius

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How many Hail Mary's do we need to condemn morons? You're wasting bandwidth on human beings who have demonstrated they're not worth it. The entire focus of the debate on this forum has been folks like yourself who focus on the bad actors, to build a narrative. The same narrative Trudeau wants that they're all bad people and unCanadian. Maybe if we actually just listened to what is a massive protest by Parliament Hill standards, we'd get somewhere.

Or you can allow mandates to carry on, that will expand to include whatever flavour of the day is. I have still yet to see any scientific evidence that a vaccine passport has any effect on reduction of COVID-19 transmission (especially in light of Omicron), and the Government who is mandating these restrictions hasn't produced it.
Because a majority of Canadians are not on board with the message?

The only people screwing up the message is this protest. They lost the initiative and it’s been taken over.

I have said it multiple times, they aren’t bad people. Just being misled and misinformed by bad people. The faces and spokespeople for this event have taken over the messaging.

We are literally starting to reopen on Feb 1. In a phased cautious approach. This protest is about a year late.
 

Fishbone Jones

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How many Hail Mary's do we need to condemn morons? You're wasting bandwidth on human beings who have demonstrated they're not worth it. The entire focus of the debate on this forum has been folks like yourself who focus on the bad actors, to build a narrative. The same narrative Trudeau wants that they're all bad people and unCanadian. Maybe if we actually just listened to what is a massive protest by Parliament Hill standards, we'd get somewhere.

Or you can allow mandates to carry on, that will expand to include whatever flavour of the day is. I have still yet to see any scientific evidence that a vaccine passport has any effect on reduction of COVID-19 transmission (especially in light of Omicron), and the Government who is mandating these restrictions hasn't produced it.

Some people(none here of course) will always agree with things like mandates or government edicts. It gives them the opportunity to be part of a larger identifiable group. It allows them to point at others and feel superior.
 

Mick

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Some people(none here of course) will always agree with things like mandates or government edicts. It gives them the opportunity to be part of a larger identifiable group. It allows them to point at others and feel superior.

I don't mean to be dismissive, but this concept can just as easily be applied to the protesters and all of the "others" that have joined them.
 

winds_13

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Because a majority of Canadians are not on board with the message?

The only people screwing up the message is this protest. They lost the initiative and it’s been taken over.

I have said it multiple times, they aren’t bad people. Just being misled and misinformed by bad people. The faces and spokespeople for this event have taken over the messaging.

We are literally starting to reopen on Feb 1. In a phased cautious approach. This protest is about a year late.
Again, you say that the protest is a year too late because Ontario, specifically, is about to transition to a "phased cautious" reopening plan. Yet, there are still no plans of loosening/removal of restrictions or mandates imposed on unvaccinated inividuals, not in Ontario nor in Canada as a whole. Instead, there are cries for increasingly punitive measures to be taken against unvaccinated citizens, the recent trucker mandate was just one of the lastest measures.

Unvaccinated people cannot freely travel within the country, they cannot work for the federal government or federally regulated industries (amongst others), in most (all?) provinces they cannot eat indoors or attend cultural events. In Quebec they cannot even go to Walmart, let alone the announcement of targetted taxation.

How is this protest late when there are no plans to ammeliorate any of the protesters main grievances (ie. the end to vaccine mandates and passport systems)? Or are you simply suggesting that they should have started this protest earlier, when the government started rolling out restrictions that divide society into groups by their vaccination status (like around September, just after the federal election)?
 

The Bread Guy

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... As far as your picture, why should anyone believe the message from government sources? ...
As others have said, there's evidence of all kinds out there. Good turnout? No doubt - even the deep state web cams showed that.

You still haven't answered by earlier question, though, about how willing the protesters would be to meet in the middle to create a win-win for all sides.
That would be every left wing protest I saw from my office which was right beside "Protest central". It's hard to keep other groups from joining in ...
And that hasn't stopped a variety of people from painting those protests with a broad brush based on the behaviour of the idiots, so it makes sense for any group to be called on keeping a grip on the extremists lest the whole group be painted with the same brush.
Holy moly am I mad when I saw this.

Now in the news:

Not to worry - all propaganda by the bought-and-paid-for media, right?
 

Gunnar

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I think, as earlier correctly pointed out in the Russel Brand video, you need to consider that all mass movements have outliers. There are dumb people, angry people, frightened people, failed to plan people, and uninformed people. People also do things for perfectly valid reasons that are crystal-clear in their minds which do not translate to the observer, or communicate the wanted message. Sensationalizing these outliers to provoke the reader is propaganda. It ascribes too much importance to the actions of a minority within the group to paint the group with a rather broad brush. There is a vast difference between one yahoo getting carried away with the emotions of the mob, and an organised attack on our institutions. Consider: “following our riots at Parliament Hill, the group will participate in urinating on the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. For obvious reasons, men are preferred for this activity. Sign up sheets are available at protest headquarters, we’re hoping to have at least 100 in attendance.” But of course, this isn’t what happened. All you have is one frustrated/angry/excited/maladroit yahoo doing something unsat. Don’t make it more than it is.
 

Remius

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Again, you say that the protest is a year too late because Ontario, specifically, is about to transition to a "phased cautious" reopening plan. Yet, there are still no plans of loosening/removal of restrictions or mandates imposed on unvaccinated inividuals, not in Ontario nor in Canada as a whole. Instead, there are cries for increasingly punitive measures to be taken against unvaccinated citizens, the recent trucker mandate was just one of the lastest measures.

Unvaccinated people cannot freely travel within the country, they cannot work for the federal government or federally regulated industries (amongst others), in most (all?) provinces they cannot eat indoors or attend cultural events. In Quebec they cannot even go to Walmart, let alone the announcement of targetted taxation.

How is this protest late when there are no plans to ammeliorate any of the protesters main grievances (ie. the end to vaccine mandates and passport systems)? Or are you simply suggesting that they should have started this protest earlier, when the government started rolling out restrictions that divide society into groups by their vaccination status (like around September, just after the federal election)?
I don’t agree with punitive measures like a health tax or denial of medical service. None of that is in place, just cries from a smaller segment. Quebec has mentioned it but it doesn’t seem to have taken hold elsewhere. So for now it’s talk.

Unvaccinated people are in fact free to travel the country. HOW they do it though is limited by their choice. Unvaccinated people can work for the federal government. They need to meet the conditions of employment.
Unvaccnated people can eat in a restaurant or bar provided they meet the conditions.

None of what you have listed that is being limited is a violation of Rights. Just privileges that need conditions to be met.

With restrictions loosening and return to partial normality yes this is too late. Because as some people have mentioned, the unvaccinated are going to get left behind. Eventually things may go back to the way it was but until we are out of the pandemic that probably won’t happen.

People had a chance to voice their displeasure and remove the PM in the last election. Instead they returned him with a stop mucking around and get back to it mandate. And yeah, I’m sure someone will point out the percentage that actually voted for him. It’s still more than the percentage of people that are anti mandate, anti vax and anti Trudeau. And way more than who is showing up to protest. Just so we are clear I did not vote for the LPC.

So if 10% can demand and end to it why do you think 90% should be ignored? Here is the thing. EVERYONE wants to be done with this. Where people differ is the HOW.

I and a far larger majority disagree with you and the minority about the how. There is some common ground that could be met. I would be in favour of regular testing. I would be in favour of eventual accommodations for certain lines of federal work.

This current protest group sees no middle ground. In fact their message has gotten a little crazy with things like Trudeau stepping down and dissolving government.

Their message has been hijacked and they lost the initiative. There is a press conference today. It will be interesting to see who speaks and what is said.
 

lenaitch

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So you don't like people voicing suggestions that go against your status quo. Instead of voicing a logical alternative or defending our current setup, you dismiss it with sarcasm. Let's just keep trudging down that same old path that is a shambles. The country is in chaos, divided and broke. Our government is a cruel joke. Your system seems to be working so well. I don't know if a Republic is the way to go, but I'm willing to discuss it instead of off handedly dismissing it without merit.
Voice all you want (which you did). That was simply my response to the suggestion that a different form of government will, in and of itself, somehow make all of our problems go away. Recent observations in countries like the US and France suggest that they are not immune from the same issues.

We may go down that road on day - many countries have - but the transition process alone will be highly divisive.
 

PMedMoe

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I'd even argue that only one person between Trudeau and the moron with a Nazi/Confederate flag has worn blackface before in a manner to mock another race.

So dressing up as Aladdin is racist??

I mean, people see it that way now, but I'm pretty sure people have dressed up as someone (be they black, indigenous or Oriental) before. Heck, some probably still do.

On the other hand, wasn't there a huge uproar against certain groups who said children dressed for Halloween as Pocahontas, Mulan, etc. was cultural appropriation? Can't have it both ways.
 

mariomike

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They got the attention they wanted.

I suspect more Canadians will vote next election.
 

mariomike

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Not going to dispute that the convoy numbers were well over slated as well.

Have to see what effect they have on the food supply.

Reports indicate the big carriers like Day and Ross etc. are not involved.

South-Asian truckers were mentioned up-thread. I read they steered clear of it.

I suspect most truckers are more concerned about wages and benefits, health and safety, working conditions etc.
 

Gunnar

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Correct. That is the current condition in place. Like being refused service for refusing to show ID for booze, wearing shoes and shirts. If you don’t meet those then you don’t get served.

This isn’t a new concept.

The vaccine is available to everyone. No one is being denied that. Everyone has the opportunity to meet those conditions. What they choose to do is their choice to make.
So, what you mean to say is that the unvaccinated ARE denied service, you’re just OK with that. Your phraseology is somewhat disengenuous.

I think the basic bone of contention here is the right of government in a free society to mandate specific courses of action and to override an individual’s choices based on their loosely defined definition of the public good. It is perceived as a betrayal of the social contract when, not only does government mandate a specific course of action curtailing freedom of choice, conscience and bodily autonomy, but invokes their own “cancel culture” on anyone who does not comply. Are you a qualified doctor who doesn’t agree? Well, your medical knowledge is worthless, because we said so. Are you concerned about the well-being of your child, and refuse to give consent for vaccination? Well, we’ll suddenly make it legal for 12-year olds to make long-term decisions that could affect their lives in defiance of the parent’s wishes. Shut up and do what you’re told, or you’re out.

If the vaccine were as simple as Smallpox vaccine, then you wouldn’t get this kind of pushback. Take the vaccine, wipe out the contagion, live happily ever after. Most people would agree with that, and the outliers would be such a small portion of society that herd immunity would either apply, or they’d be so unlikely to be affected nobody would care. But people really have an issue being forced to take vaccines against a virus that kills 0.04% of those that contract it, and which isn’t guaranteed to work anyway. People don’t see the point of draconian enforcement when the best it can promise is a “reduction in symptoms”.

The somewhat shaky argument for the case, coupled with radical changes to the historical way we have implemented health mandates, and lots of weasel words and shady practices surrounding the method of enforcement naturally puts people on edge. People do not trust authoritarian leadership, particularly when they are in the business of supressing dissent. People do not trust requests for their “voluntary” compliance based on the threat of societal exclusion. This is a fundamental failure in leadership on behalf of our leaders.
 
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