• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Freedom Convoy protests [Split from All things 2019-nCoV]

Furniture

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
1,128
Points
1,110
Yes, but if they really considered these mandates so wrong they would have voted based on that no? At least this is what these occupiers are screaming about all day, how it's about freedom, how's it the single most important issue and how they're fighting for the majority of Canadians to be free again?

You're kind of ignoring that fact that the situation with COVID has changed, and people don't vote on one issue usually. Omicron has altered people's tolerances for restrictions.... Remember back around the election when they were telling us Christmas would be saved by getting vaccinated?

Pretty sure they get one vote in Parliament.... unless Justin somehow gets more than one because the Liberals elected him as leader?
I suppose if you ignore the actual reality of the party system in Parliament that makes sense, but in the real world there are party whips, and the fact the rump parties can't afford another election right away. That means the PM has considerably more power than one vote.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,634
Points
1,090
While some think that might be funny. Consider it when we’ve just seen O’toole ousted as leader from his party or when Warara, Chong and Lemieux (I only remember Chong from that and had to look it up) led a backbencher revolt against Harper. Boris Johnson is having/had similar issues over COVID measures.
 

meni0n

Sr. Member
Reaction score
39
Points
330
You're kind of ignoring that fact that the situation with COVID has changed, and people don't vote on one issue usually. Omicron has altered people's tolerances for restrictions.... Remember back around the election when they were telling us Christmas would be saved by getting vaccinated?


I suppose if you ignore the actual reality of the party system in Parliament that makes sense, but in the real world there are party whips, and the fact the rump parties can't afford another election right away. That means the PM has considerably more power than one vote.
If it was such a huge issue, everyone and their mother would be calling their MPs demanding whatever these occupiers are asking for. You will also be seeing huge crowds everywhere, but you're not. It's a tiny minority.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,634
Points
1,090
If it was such a huge issue, everyone and their mother would be calling their MPs demanding whatever these occupiers are asking for. You will also be seeing huge crowds everywhere, but you're not. It's a tiny minority.
The Pandemic is and was a huge issue.

Nobody likes mandates. But most accepted them as the way out of this. It doesn’t mean they were happy about it.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,634
Points
1,090
Protest and revolution are part of democracy; sometimes the path to democracy. Arguing that protests are anti-democratic isn't a strong tack to take.
When the protest is against democracy then I would argue that it is.
 

meni0n

Sr. Member
Reaction score
39
Points
330
Protest and revolution are part of democracy; sometimes the path to democracy. Arguing that protests are anti-democratic isn't a strong tack to take.
Sure, but we have democracy, unless you want to make an argument we don't? I never said protests are anti-democratic. I said illegally occupying streets, borders, waving nazi flags and harassing locals over wearing of masks and then making demands/threats to get what you want is not part of the democratic process. Some of the demands of these people was to depose the current government and install their committee to run the country. I don't understand how people here can support them. I guess hating the Liberal government is more important than preserving the country. How can you have worn the uniform and had the Canadian flag on your shoulder and then cheer on these occupations/protests that are led by the likes of white supremacists like Pat King.
 

Brad Sallows

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,190
Points
1,010
If it was such a huge issue, everyone and their mother would be calling their MPs demanding whatever these occupiers are asking for.

Look up "preference cascade". I suppose most people are sitting quietly waiting to see how things work out for the early adopters of fewer restrictions. If so, what we're seeing is the early, relatively polite, warning - the one that should prompt authorities to heed the old advice "the greatest problems are most easily solved while they are small".
 

Halifax Tar

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
2,264
Points
1,260
20220213_054513.jpg

I mean there is this too... He's junk no doubt about that. But who is ready to take his place ? Who is offering the alternative ?
 

Edward Campbell

Army.ca Myth
Subscriber
Donor
Mentor
Reaction score
1,280
Points
1,160
Sure, but we have democracy, unless you want to make an argument we don't? I never said protests are anti-democratic. I said illegally occupying streets, borders, waving nazi flags and harassing locals over wearing of masks and then making demands/threats to get what you want is not part of the democratic process. Some of the demands of these people was to depose the current government and install their committee to run the country. I don't understand how people here can support them. I guess hating the Liberal government is more important than preserving the country. How can you have worn the uniform and had the Canadian flag on your shoulder and then cheer on these occupations/protests that are led by the likes of white supremacists like Pat King.
Democracy, on one hand, and rule of law and "peace, order and good government," on the other, are two different things.

I think we have some serious governance problems. If we fix those at forthcoming national, provincial and local elections, then our democracy will be just fine. If we elect better governments then they will, in turn fix the the very evident failures in the area of "peace, order and good government."
 

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Myth
Reaction score
3,675
Points
1,060
Sure, but we have democracy, unless you want to make an argument we don't?
We don't have a true democracy.

I can't vote directly on issues. I vote through a proxy but even then I can only hope they vote the way I want them to vote. If they don't I can't fire him. I need to wait 4 years to vote for a new one, even then I might not get my choice.

If the proxy I vote for votes against the party wishes then the person I voted for can be fired from the party. Lots of rea$ons for them not to vote against the party wishes.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,634
Points
1,090
We don't have a true democracy.

I can't vote directly on issues. I vote through a proxy but even then I can only hope they vote the way I want them to vote. If they don't I can't fire him. I need to wait 4 years to vote for a new one, even then I might not get my choice.

If the proxy I vote for votes against the party wishes then the person I voted for can be fired. Lots of rea$ons for them not to vote against the party wishes.
There is no perfect system. True democracy exists in small groups that all have a voice. Tribes and anything that allows for consensus governance.

Large successful Nations cannot effectively achieve that. They can only make the best of what they have and attempt to achieve what they can.

We lack a true professional ruling class. But many would balk at having that sort of thing. It’s an interesting concept though. Plato examined it. He was not impressed by democracy as he thought it would ultimately lead to Tyranny.
 

MilEME09

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
3,720
Points
1,090
One would think it would be an even bigger majority, given the opposition doesn’t even have the leader who would campaign against Trudeau! 😉
Even if the house votes a non-confidence motion, unless liberals break ranks and cause internal strife in the party, it will be more of the same.
 
Top